F1: Hungary
Originally Posted by Mans Best,Aug 5 2007, 12:36 AM
naivety beyond belief! Ron's frank and detailed load of bollocks would be a more accurate description.
Why wasn't Alonso sent to the back of the grid as Schumacher was in Monaco, for being deemed to deliberately spoil a rival's qualifying run? Once again, proof that McLaren still get away with this shit! I wonder if we'll see Keke Rosberg, Jackie Stewart and all the other has-beens denouncing Alonso's antics as they did with Schumacher's? Wasn't this more blatant?
Why wasn't Alonso sent to the back of the grid as Schumacher was in Monaco, for being deemed to deliberately spoil a rival's qualifying run? Once again, proof that McLaren still get away with this shit! I wonder if we'll see Keke Rosberg, Jackie Stewart and all the other has-beens denouncing Alonso's antics as they did with Schumacher's? Wasn't this more blatant?
Originally Posted by GarethB,Aug 5 2007, 02:20 AM
Making up for the lack of punishment over the stolen plans?
I think there's two ways you can read the situation: either Alonso has fallen out with the team in general, or the team is divided and Ron can't keep control of the two camps. Either way, Ron is probably deeply embaressed, and it's not suprising that he's trying to play down the conflict as his paymasters can't be too happy.
I agree that if it was as blatant as it looked, Alonso should have gone to the back of the grid. But the fact that McLaren are being punished as well makes me think that perhaps it is partly as Ron said, and the team, or at least elements within the team were to blame.
Still, you can't accuse F1 of being boring at the moment, even if for the wrong reasons.
On a different note, Renault are rumoured to have signed Nelson Piquet Jr for a race seat in 2008, which probably spells the end of Fisi. And you never know, we might see him sooner, it wouldn't be the first time Flav has done something like that.
Originally Posted by Dembo,Aug 5 2007, 02:40 AM
Either way, Ron is probably deeply embaressed, and it's not suprising that he's trying to play down the conflict as his paymasters can't be too happy.
Again, class distinctly lacking.
I'm more interested in Ron's statement being pretty much proved as being nonsense as I'm sure the radio conversations have proved.
Ron has made himself look like a complete fool, his body language showed his disgust then he blames Hamilton in a written statement which has been proved not to be the case.
Ron has made himself look like a complete fool, his body language showed his disgust then he blames Hamilton in a written statement which has been proved not to be the case.
Watch the mechanics around Alonso's car when he lollipop was raised, they all look at each other with a "what's going on?" expression. THey were all expecting him to move away immediately.
The official FIA statement - proves that Ron and co are full of crap.
During the final minutes of qualifying, the car driven by Fernando Alonso remained in its pit stop position at the completion of his pit stop notwithstanding the fact that his team-mate Lewis Hamilton was waiting immediately behind him to commence his own pit stop.
The delay prevented Hamilton from being able to complete his final flying lap of qualifying.
The team principal, together with the team manager and both drivers, were called before the Stewards and asked to explain their actions.
Reference was made to video and audio evidence. The facts and the explanation given by the team are as follows:
At the commencement of the third period of the qualifying practice it had been agreed within the Vodafone McLaren Mercedes Team ("the team") that Fernando Alonso would leave the pit exit ahead of Lewis Hamilton in order to benefit from the possibility for purposes of fuel burn allowance of being able to complete an additional lap.
In the event, the car driven by Lewis Hamilton arrived at the pit exit before that of Fernando Alonso and when the pit lane opened he left in front of Alonso.
The team required Hamilton by radio communication to allow Alonso to pass in order that he might endeavour to complete his extra lap.
Because of the proximity of the Ferrari driven by Kimi Raikkonen, however, Hamilton declined to allow Alonso to pass despite repeated requests from the team to do so.
Reference to the radio communications passing between the team and its two drivers shows that the team told Hamilton at 14:56:44 to "box this lap" and required him to do a "hard in-lap" but advised him some 32 seconds later to "slow the pace a little, just lose a couple of seconds before the end of the lap because Fernando is pitting in front of you".
At 14:57:34, just 18 seconds later, Alonso was told that when he pitted "we are going to hold you for 20 seconds".
At 14:57:46 Alonso's car arrived at his pit stop position, his tyres were changed and the jacks removed just 6 seconds later.
The car then remained in position from 14:57:52 to 14:58:12 when the signal known as the "lollipop" was raised indicating that the driver was free to leave.
By this time Hamilton's car had arrived and stopped immediately behind that of Alonso.
Alonso, instead of leaving his pit in order that his team-mate Hamilton could complete his pit stop, remained in position for a further 10 seconds.
He then left the pit lane in sufficient time to reach the Control Line before the end of qualifying, completed a flying lap in which he set the fastest time and secured pole position.
Because of the delay caused by Alonso, Hamilton was unable to complete his pit stop in time sufficient to enable him also to complete a flying lap.
The team were asked to explain why, having indicated to Hamilton that he must stop at his pit on the next lap, they then informed Alonso whilst he was still on the track that when he also pitted on the next lap he would be held for 20 seconds.
The team stated that they frequently give estimates as to duration of pit stop to their drivers before they pit and that the reason the car was in fact held for 20 seconds was that it was being counted down prior to release at a beneficial time regard being given to other cars on the track.
Alonso was asked why he waited for some 10 seconds before leaving the pits after being given the signal to leave. His response was that he was enquiring as to whether the correct set of tyres had been fitted to his car.
When asked why this conversation did not take place during the 20-second period when his car sat stationary all work on it having been completed, it was stated that it was not possible to communicate by radio because of the countdown being given to him.
Reference to the circuit map shows that at the time Alonso was told he would be held for 20 seconds there were but 4 cars on the circuit, his own and those of Fisichella, Hamilton and Raikkonen.
All but Raikkonen entered the pits such that there can have been no necessity to keep Alonso in the pits for 20 seconds waiting for a convenient gap in traffic in which to leave.
The explanation given by Alonso as to why at the expiration of the 20 second period he remained in his pit stop position for a further 10 seconds is not accepted.
The Stewards find that he unnecessarily impeded another driver, Hamilton, and as a result he will be penalised by a loss of 5 grid positions.
The explanation given by the team as to why they kept Alonso stationary for 20 seconds after completion of his tyre change and therefore delayed Hamilton's own pit stop is not accepted.
The actions of the team in the final minutes of qualifying are considered prejudicial to the interests of the competition and to the interests of motor sport generally.
The penalty to be applied is that such points (if any) in the 2007 Formula 1 constructors' championship as accrue to the team as a result of their participation in the 2007 Hungarian Grand Prix wilt be withdrawn.
The team is reminded of its right of appeal.
During the final minutes of qualifying, the car driven by Fernando Alonso remained in its pit stop position at the completion of his pit stop notwithstanding the fact that his team-mate Lewis Hamilton was waiting immediately behind him to commence his own pit stop.
The delay prevented Hamilton from being able to complete his final flying lap of qualifying.
The team principal, together with the team manager and both drivers, were called before the Stewards and asked to explain their actions.
Reference was made to video and audio evidence. The facts and the explanation given by the team are as follows:
At the commencement of the third period of the qualifying practice it had been agreed within the Vodafone McLaren Mercedes Team ("the team") that Fernando Alonso would leave the pit exit ahead of Lewis Hamilton in order to benefit from the possibility for purposes of fuel burn allowance of being able to complete an additional lap.
In the event, the car driven by Lewis Hamilton arrived at the pit exit before that of Fernando Alonso and when the pit lane opened he left in front of Alonso.
The team required Hamilton by radio communication to allow Alonso to pass in order that he might endeavour to complete his extra lap.
Because of the proximity of the Ferrari driven by Kimi Raikkonen, however, Hamilton declined to allow Alonso to pass despite repeated requests from the team to do so.
Reference to the radio communications passing between the team and its two drivers shows that the team told Hamilton at 14:56:44 to "box this lap" and required him to do a "hard in-lap" but advised him some 32 seconds later to "slow the pace a little, just lose a couple of seconds before the end of the lap because Fernando is pitting in front of you".
At 14:57:34, just 18 seconds later, Alonso was told that when he pitted "we are going to hold you for 20 seconds".
At 14:57:46 Alonso's car arrived at his pit stop position, his tyres were changed and the jacks removed just 6 seconds later.
The car then remained in position from 14:57:52 to 14:58:12 when the signal known as the "lollipop" was raised indicating that the driver was free to leave.
By this time Hamilton's car had arrived and stopped immediately behind that of Alonso.
Alonso, instead of leaving his pit in order that his team-mate Hamilton could complete his pit stop, remained in position for a further 10 seconds.
He then left the pit lane in sufficient time to reach the Control Line before the end of qualifying, completed a flying lap in which he set the fastest time and secured pole position.
Because of the delay caused by Alonso, Hamilton was unable to complete his pit stop in time sufficient to enable him also to complete a flying lap.
The team were asked to explain why, having indicated to Hamilton that he must stop at his pit on the next lap, they then informed Alonso whilst he was still on the track that when he also pitted on the next lap he would be held for 20 seconds.
The team stated that they frequently give estimates as to duration of pit stop to their drivers before they pit and that the reason the car was in fact held for 20 seconds was that it was being counted down prior to release at a beneficial time regard being given to other cars on the track.
Alonso was asked why he waited for some 10 seconds before leaving the pits after being given the signal to leave. His response was that he was enquiring as to whether the correct set of tyres had been fitted to his car.
When asked why this conversation did not take place during the 20-second period when his car sat stationary all work on it having been completed, it was stated that it was not possible to communicate by radio because of the countdown being given to him.
Reference to the circuit map shows that at the time Alonso was told he would be held for 20 seconds there were but 4 cars on the circuit, his own and those of Fisichella, Hamilton and Raikkonen.
All but Raikkonen entered the pits such that there can have been no necessity to keep Alonso in the pits for 20 seconds waiting for a convenient gap in traffic in which to leave.
The explanation given by Alonso as to why at the expiration of the 20 second period he remained in his pit stop position for a further 10 seconds is not accepted.
The Stewards find that he unnecessarily impeded another driver, Hamilton, and as a result he will be penalised by a loss of 5 grid positions.
The explanation given by the team as to why they kept Alonso stationary for 20 seconds after completion of his tyre change and therefore delayed Hamilton's own pit stop is not accepted.
The actions of the team in the final minutes of qualifying are considered prejudicial to the interests of the competition and to the interests of motor sport generally.
The penalty to be applied is that such points (if any) in the 2007 Formula 1 constructors' championship as accrue to the team as a result of their participation in the 2007 Hungarian Grand Prix wilt be withdrawn.
The team is reminded of its right of appeal.
Whoever is right or wrong (and IMO Alonso is very much in the wrong), I think the biggest shame here is that the issue of who occupies first or second place on the grid has become so very important to the outcome of the race itself.
To my way of thinking if, when taken alongside the mechanical versus aerodynamic grip characteristics of the cars, a circuit presents so little in the way of overtaking opportunities during the race that pole postion becomes so important, they should really think long and hard about racing somewhere else.
Surely qualifying should only be about sorting out a running order for the main event, from which a number of drivers near the front of the grid have a realistic chance of winning - a means to the end, rather than the end itself.
If Alonso really did deliberately block the pit, and it certainly looked like he did on TV, then I think his 'win-at-all-costs' approach further lowers F1's standing as a sporting event (I think winning in motor racing should be about the best driver and car package - not about who is prepared to try the most underhand tactics to deny another competitor from having a fair chance to show what they can do). But I think the real pity for F1 is that the relative importance of the driver's performance on Saturday is, for this race at least, so crucial to the outcome of the race that someone should be tempted to try such a stunt in the first place.
I'm enjoying F1 more this year than I have for a little while, although not because of incidents like this. But in terms of racing and sportsmanship, I'll take bikes over F1 cars any day of the week.
To my way of thinking if, when taken alongside the mechanical versus aerodynamic grip characteristics of the cars, a circuit presents so little in the way of overtaking opportunities during the race that pole postion becomes so important, they should really think long and hard about racing somewhere else.
Surely qualifying should only be about sorting out a running order for the main event, from which a number of drivers near the front of the grid have a realistic chance of winning - a means to the end, rather than the end itself.
If Alonso really did deliberately block the pit, and it certainly looked like he did on TV, then I think his 'win-at-all-costs' approach further lowers F1's standing as a sporting event (I think winning in motor racing should be about the best driver and car package - not about who is prepared to try the most underhand tactics to deny another competitor from having a fair chance to show what they can do). But I think the real pity for F1 is that the relative importance of the driver's performance on Saturday is, for this race at least, so crucial to the outcome of the race that someone should be tempted to try such a stunt in the first place.
I'm enjoying F1 more this year than I have for a little while, although not because of incidents like this. But in terms of racing and sportsmanship, I'll take bikes over F1 cars any day of the week.
On a more positive note, it's good to see Nico Rosberg (and Williams) up there at the front of the grid.
Always had a soft spot for Williams since the Alan Jones days (longer ago than I want to remember). It's nice to see a privateer team can still get up there occasionally. Button must be cursing himself even more now by staying at Honda.....
Wonder if they will be able to keep Rosberg next year?
Always had a soft spot for Williams since the Alan Jones days (longer ago than I want to remember). It's nice to see a privateer team can still get up there occasionally. Button must be cursing himself even more now by staying at Honda.....
Wonder if they will be able to keep Rosberg next year?
Originally Posted by Luke O'Zade,Aug 5 2007, 07:40 AM
Whoever is right or wrong (and IMO Alonso is very much in the wrong), I think the biggest shame here is that the issue of who occupies first or second place on the grid has become so very important to the outcome of the race itself.








