F1: Monaco
Originally Posted by lower,May 29 2007, 10:14 AM
Didn't use team orders? So they didn't put 4 laps of extra fuel in Hamilton's car during qualifying? Why not put that extra fuel in alonso's car.
Originally Posted by Bada Bing!,May 29 2007, 11:35 AM
He's just a whining little (but admittedly talented) ponce who needs to learn his place.
There's an interesting piece in today's Telegraph on precisely this point from Mark Blundell:
Welcome to Formula One, Lewis. The problem Hamilton has is that he is up against the best guy in the pit lane, Fernando Alonso. Lewis knows he has the speed. He knows he is in a winning car. But after Monaco he realises there is more to be done if he is going to win a grand prix. And I'm not talking about behind the wheel of the car.
Lewis is in a difficult position. The process that worked so well to get him where he is now, is in a sense holding him back. In terms of the driver dynamics, he is still Lewis the rookie. That is how the vast majority of the team will see him and treat him. He is still a boy.
Fernando is the world champion. The man. His relationship with the team is more formal. He negotiated a big contract and has the power. Lewis has to learn how to make his presence felt in the team the way that Fernando does.
In my career, I didn't realise the importance of that part of the game until it was too late. If I had stopped being such a nice guy every time I stepped into an F1 car and had more of a hard edge about me like Ayrton Senna, for example, it would have served me much better. There has to be a selfishness about you almost to the point where people don't like you. But they will respect you. That is all that matters.
That is the position Fernando has engineered for himself at McLaren. Lewis has to go away and learn from this. We have no doubts about his speed or his mental make-up. We are talking about experience here. He has to break Fernando's grip on power. That's not going to be easy.
McLaren have made a huge investment to bring the two-times world champion to the team. Lewis is the most refreshing thing to come into F1 in the last 10 or 20 years. But he has completed only five grands prix. He's been brilliant but he is not quite at the point where he needs to get to, or where we all think he will get to. That is winning races.
Let's just take a step back and take a hard business view, as McLaren have to do. We never thought that Lewis would be in the situation he is in now. On that basis, if you are investing in the champion, and he is going to come in making demands, you are going to accept them because he is the guy you want. Alonso and McLaren have been given a shock. Fernando is having to work as hard as he ever has and McLaren have a rivalry to manage.
Fernando was flawless all weekend, precision perfect. He did not make one mistake, did not put a wheel wrong. You only have to look at the lap times. It was mind-blowing. His first 10 race laps were something every driver would like to have on his CV. The Spaniard's qualifying lap was as perfect as you will ever see.
There is a world of difference between the team-mates' career phases. Just look around the car. There is a lot of Spanish influence and sponsorship. Lewis has to understand that this is not just a sport, it's a business. Within the business model Fernando is in the far stronger position.
Hamilton clearly has areas of frustration. He has a huge amount of support and goodwill in the team. His challenge now is to find a way to make his voice heard so that he gets the team to deliver the strategy he wants. He needs to start asking the team some serious questions about how he is going to be allowed to compete.
This won't happen overnight. Lewis is experiencing the hard side of F1, the reality if you like. This could be all part of the test McLaren have set him. They have been here before. They have dealt with the Niki Laudas, the Alain Prosts and the Sennas. This is a 24/7 job. Lewis has to learn that lesson now to get to the next level. When he does, boy, are we going to have one powerful customer.
Lewis is in a difficult position. The process that worked so well to get him where he is now, is in a sense holding him back. In terms of the driver dynamics, he is still Lewis the rookie. That is how the vast majority of the team will see him and treat him. He is still a boy.
Fernando is the world champion. The man. His relationship with the team is more formal. He negotiated a big contract and has the power. Lewis has to learn how to make his presence felt in the team the way that Fernando does.
In my career, I didn't realise the importance of that part of the game until it was too late. If I had stopped being such a nice guy every time I stepped into an F1 car and had more of a hard edge about me like Ayrton Senna, for example, it would have served me much better. There has to be a selfishness about you almost to the point where people don't like you. But they will respect you. That is all that matters.
That is the position Fernando has engineered for himself at McLaren. Lewis has to go away and learn from this. We have no doubts about his speed or his mental make-up. We are talking about experience here. He has to break Fernando's grip on power. That's not going to be easy.
McLaren have made a huge investment to bring the two-times world champion to the team. Lewis is the most refreshing thing to come into F1 in the last 10 or 20 years. But he has completed only five grands prix. He's been brilliant but he is not quite at the point where he needs to get to, or where we all think he will get to. That is winning races.
Let's just take a step back and take a hard business view, as McLaren have to do. We never thought that Lewis would be in the situation he is in now. On that basis, if you are investing in the champion, and he is going to come in making demands, you are going to accept them because he is the guy you want. Alonso and McLaren have been given a shock. Fernando is having to work as hard as he ever has and McLaren have a rivalry to manage.
Fernando was flawless all weekend, precision perfect. He did not make one mistake, did not put a wheel wrong. You only have to look at the lap times. It was mind-blowing. His first 10 race laps were something every driver would like to have on his CV. The Spaniard's qualifying lap was as perfect as you will ever see.
There is a world of difference between the team-mates' career phases. Just look around the car. There is a lot of Spanish influence and sponsorship. Lewis has to understand that this is not just a sport, it's a business. Within the business model Fernando is in the far stronger position.
Hamilton clearly has areas of frustration. He has a huge amount of support and goodwill in the team. His challenge now is to find a way to make his voice heard so that he gets the team to deliver the strategy he wants. He needs to start asking the team some serious questions about how he is going to be allowed to compete.
This won't happen overnight. Lewis is experiencing the hard side of F1, the reality if you like. This could be all part of the test McLaren have set him. They have been here before. They have dealt with the Niki Laudas, the Alain Prosts and the Sennas. This is a 24/7 job. Lewis has to learn that lesson now to get to the next level. When he does, boy, are we going to have one powerful customer.
That's the most sensible thing I've ever seen come from Blundell, and agree with it completely. Hamilton is a boy, having completed just 5 GP's and he needs to learn his place. If he isn't happy with the position of rookie, he has to keep working on the good results, keep his mouth shut and at least bag a season learing from a 2x world champion and how an F1 team works.
Instead, his ego has swollen beyond all recognition and he's suddenly a diva who wants the team to grant him a win after his second race (as per his radio comments). He needs to learn patience and respect among many other things.
He also needs to calm his driving down or he will take out his team mate on track. Controlled aggression is fine, weaving all over the track on the first corner is just asking for trouble.
Instead, his ego has swollen beyond all recognition and he's suddenly a diva who wants the team to grant him a win after his second race (as per his radio comments). He needs to learn patience and respect among many other things.
He also needs to calm his driving down or he will take out his team mate on track. Controlled aggression is fine, weaving all over the track on the first corner is just asking for trouble.
Originally Posted by Bada Bing!,May 29 2007, 11:37 AM
Different strategies. One to compensate for a safety car 9based on historical data), the other assuming there isn't one.
full marks to Blundell for stating the bleeding obvious
did ANYONE think there were joint number ones in that team?
I did spit out some drink at the notion of Blundell doing better in his career than he did
not good enough son - live with it
Hamilton is fecked as long as he is the same team as Alonso
did ANYONE think there were joint number ones in that team?
I did spit out some drink at the notion of Blundell doing better in his career than he did
not good enough son - live with it
Hamilton is fecked as long as he is the same team as Alonso
Originally Posted by gaddafi,May 29 2007, 12:26 PM
Hamilton is fecked as long as he is the same team as Alonso
He just needs to calm down, accept Alonso will get preference as double world champion, and continue to do his talking on track. I think there will be further races where he proves faster than Alonso, and he can mount some psychological pressure on Alonso in that way. He certainly won't do it by bleating about team decisions.
Didn't hear his "monkey" comment, but also think that was a very stupid thing to say - he has had a lucky start to his carreer in terms of McLaren finally getting back to the top of their game, but he could easily end up back there with the monkeys in the future.
the other piece that lewis is not learning in his first season - is how to make a bad car better..and the team stronger
the first seasons for Senna, Schumacher, Alonso were all about this effort... not just driving the balls off the car..
whilst Mclaren is competitive - all will be fine for him.. but could Lewis be able to turn around a team when the car is not so good?
the first seasons for Senna, Schumacher, Alonso were all about this effort... not just driving the balls off the car..
whilst Mclaren is competitive - all will be fine for him.. but could Lewis be able to turn around a team when the car is not so good?
I cannot see him being able to assert superiority over Alonso in the same team
the reasons for this have all been posted but come down to ability and money he brings to the team
if Alonso breaks a leg, it will be different, but that's the only way I see it happening
so he can either stay there and 'enjoy' playing second fiddle
or leave, which in a less competitive team, will tell us a LOT more about his abilities
I suppose the other possibility is that Alonso will leave, but I can't really see why he would
the reasons for this have all been posted but come down to ability and money he brings to the team
if Alonso breaks a leg, it will be different, but that's the only way I see it happening
so he can either stay there and 'enjoy' playing second fiddle
or leave, which in a less competitive team, will tell us a LOT more about his abilities
I suppose the other possibility is that Alonso will leave, but I can't really see why he would
Originally Posted by Kobe,May 29 2007, 07:16 PM
the other piece that lewis is not learning in his first season - is how to make a bad car better..and the team stronger
the first seasons for Senna, Schumacher, Alonso were all about this effort... not just driving the balls off the car..
whilst Mclaren is competitive - all will be fine for him.. but could Lewis be able to turn around a team when the car is not so good?
the first seasons for Senna, Schumacher, Alonso were all about this effort... not just driving the balls off the car..
whilst Mclaren is competitive - all will be fine for him.. but could Lewis be able to turn around a team when the car is not so good?
Button quite clearly can't. In fact, beyond the ones mentioned above, I can't think of any others in recent memory who've been able to make a measurable improvement on a car/teams performance.





