chilled

I've had the M3 for over a year now, and most of the time, and especially in the wet I leave the traction/stability control on. Whilst I am mostly capable of driving it with it off even in the worst downpours, I find it a nice safety net and it gives me a warm feeling. I've also found I press on a bit harder in inclement weather because of it.

I've had one moment where it "saved" me from a potentially big accident on the road in the wet. But, I doubt I would have been doing that speed if I hadn't had TC.

So do you think it makes people drive more recklessly?

Nick Graves

Issigonis gave the Mini massive reserves of roadholding as a safety feature and was most disappointed when drivers used them up!

It's human nature to do so. Fortunately, or there'd be no progress without progression.

Reckless no; is the accident gonna be harder, probably!

But there's a whole raft of other FREDs so you can spank a heavier car at far greater velocity and walk away, compared to Sir Alec's day.

FistralG

It also means that you can put a 300bhp engine in a front wheel drive car, which would be impossible without them.

What people do with that 300bhp is their responsibility. I dare say it will make some of them a bit reckless.

To be honest I find its the other safety systems like seat belts, airbags, crumple zones and passenger safety cells that make me feel I can take a few more risks in some cars that I wouldn't do in the S.

My mate thinks if all cars were built with a six inch spike on the steering wheel boss there would be a lot fewer incidents on the road! I have to agree.

Moggy

Absolutely - moral hazard and the (lack of) perception of risk.

It becomes a vitcious circle. Makes cars safer with more FREDS to make cars safer from FREDS.

soulcrew

isnt that the humungous 4x4 argument as well.

a bit like an arms race.

with cars.

mikey k

You've answered your question there!
I leave the RLTC on in the S and switch it according to the conditions.
I also find myself making better progress than the cars around me in the wet
Though I'm sure I would slow if it were off I doubt I'd be concetrating 100% of the time and be capable of catching everything it might throw at me

JimUK

Definitely makes people drive more recklessly! I posted about a mate driving his DB9 like a hooligan in the wet, which you wouldnt do without TCS/TC/EPS/DSC etc. On the flip side, a mechanic mate of mine has gone from an RS6 to a Sagaris which is frighteningly quick and makes do without ABS, traction, or airbags..

ge2

My Legacy has a form of stability control and I'm convinced it's only on there so it looks good in the brochure and because punters now expect it.

It's just not necessary, it's already got 4WD and an LSD, the only time I've seen it come on is in the snow and ice and the latter was under provocation (on track BTW ).

The 4WD does encourage some lazy, sloppy driving but I quite like it in a road car especially if the weather's shitty and I just want to get home.

But the car's best enjoyed and fastest when driven smoothly like a RWD car with a lot of grip. It's got a real mechanical feel to it and unless you're being a complete tool the SC doesn't get look in

gaddafi

I'm afraid the aids do make you lazy and imbue a false confidence

Nick Graves

The more insipid side of FREDs is that they're used to imbue balance on an unbalanced design. The Focus aRSe is a classic example.

Drive a well-balanced car smoothly and the FREDs shouldn't intrude; how often does one trigger ABS when driving? OK, one 'pump' occasionally on a gravelly road, but that's it. They are there for the unforeseen.

If gurning neanderthals cannot see that, it's a form of Darwinism.