IAM
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 7,187
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From: Here and awake!
I think I have learned to drive defensively over the years, I always drive 'for other people' ... I try to anticipate what they will do next, and am usually ready for most things, still get caught out on occasion though by someone's total stupidity. I have never done or been on a IAM course, but I did attend a course rather than collect points for a speeding infraction many years ago. The instructors were all badged up and fortunately for me the instructor that came out with me felt I was a good driver and as a result I learnt a lot from him, how to 'push on' by straight-lining certain corners, how to anticipate even more than I already did, how to notice by the trees or lamp-posts that certain driving conditions should be employed. I guess what I am saying is mostly this comes down to common sense, the emphasis on 'sense' ... I don't care what someone with a IAM badge says, I will continue to allow people onto the motorway for example when safe to do so by moving to the middle or outer lane, much rather that than force them to brake hard or accelerate dangerously to try and get in front of me etc. etc. ... simply 'common sense' in my view.
I am with m1bjr point of view on this I think.
I am with m1bjr point of view on this I think.
Banned
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 31,739
Likes: 69
From: Survivalist enclave
I see the problem of the aplication of this bit by Mr IAM as the possible issue:-
"Drivers on the motorway have priority and may not be able to move over to allow you to enter"
Mr IAM seems to interpret this bit as 'feck you, I'm not moving or altering speed to allow you to blend even though I could'
I'm doing 2k miles or more a week regularly mate.
I see it all, and often when I have seen this behaviour it is either by a badge wearing old git, or a 'Red' driving school car
"Drivers on the motorway have priority and may not be able to move over to allow you to enter"
Mr IAM seems to interpret this bit as 'feck you, I'm not moving or altering speed to allow you to blend even though I could'
I'm doing 2k miles or more a week regularly mate.
I see it all, and often when I have seen this behaviour it is either by a badge wearing old git, or a 'Red' driving school car
exactly in line with my experience
and if you talk to a lot of IAM memnbers, it's clear they occupy a different planet
Registered User
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 1,471
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From: On another planet
Motorway slip roads.....
Simple; where there is an off-slip there will be an on-slip (usually)
Be aware of vehicles entering the motorway and react accordingly (give them room)
Never done an IAM course, pretty basic from what I gather although anything that improves driving standards has to be a plus
Simple; where there is an off-slip there will be an on-slip (usually)
Be aware of vehicles entering the motorway and react accordingly (give them room)
Never done an IAM course, pretty basic from what I gather although anything that improves driving standards has to be a plus
Banned
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 31,739
Likes: 69
From: Survivalist enclave
I'll always try and be in lane 2 before I get to a motorway slip road (as in entry point for joining drivers) if possible
That allows for people joing the motorway at 45mph or 100mph - both of which are pretty common ime
It might mean I'm a middle lane driver when there is nothing in lane 1 but that just proves that a lot of driving advice needs to be modified according to circumstances
That allows for people joing the motorway at 45mph or 100mph - both of which are pretty common ime
It might mean I'm a middle lane driver when there is nothing in lane 1 but that just proves that a lot of driving advice needs to be modified according to circumstances
Registered User
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 2,627
Likes: 0
From: Herts
I haven't done IAM but I've done Roadcraft with ridedrive.
Can't really say anything that hasn't already been said, other than to add a "typical" from this weekend...
I tend to pull to the middle lane when there's an off-ramp approaching (traffic etc pending yadda yadda) and then stay in the middle until I have seen what's on the on-ramp, and use the appropriate lane.
On the way up to b'ham this weekend, I was on the M42. I didn't bother moving across when another road merged - because the merging road formed a new lane. I therefore assumed that the camper van that was indicating right (with nothing in front to pass) would wait until I had gone past to get on with some middle lane hogging.
Not so.
The horn needs replacing with something more germanic. Thankfully I knew there was nothing in Lane 3 - because it meant I had somewhere to escape to. I glanced in my mirror as I pulled back in front (now in 3rd and making a bit mroe noise to express my irritation - I don't bother with gesticulation or rhetoric) to see the lady driving with her hand covering her mouth.
Fingers crossed she'll learn from that one, then.
Likewise, it's the last time I give any benefit of doubt.
Assume all other road users are about to do something stupid.
Can't really say anything that hasn't already been said, other than to add a "typical" from this weekend...
I tend to pull to the middle lane when there's an off-ramp approaching (traffic etc pending yadda yadda) and then stay in the middle until I have seen what's on the on-ramp, and use the appropriate lane.
On the way up to b'ham this weekend, I was on the M42. I didn't bother moving across when another road merged - because the merging road formed a new lane. I therefore assumed that the camper van that was indicating right (with nothing in front to pass) would wait until I had gone past to get on with some middle lane hogging.
Not so.
The horn needs replacing with something more germanic. Thankfully I knew there was nothing in Lane 3 - because it meant I had somewhere to escape to. I glanced in my mirror as I pulled back in front (now in 3rd and making a bit mroe noise to express my irritation - I don't bother with gesticulation or rhetoric) to see the lady driving with her hand covering her mouth.
Fingers crossed she'll learn from that one, then.
Likewise, it's the last time I give any benefit of doubt.
Assume all other road users are about to do something stupid.
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 9,022
Likes: 1
From: There's no i in toast!
Although I drive by the ethos of "lets keep traffic moving", I'm not as eager to jump out of peoples way when they are joining the motorway.
There are two reasons for this...
1) People now expect to be let onto a motorway, so if you don't jump out of their way or can't, they get all arsey with you and/or do something stupid like force themselves into the gap which was your braking distance, or start to drive down the hard shoulder
2) By blindly moving over into lane 2 to let those people join, more often than not you cut someone else up and/or force them to take avoiding action. This can very quickly cause a knock on effect to other road users in lane 2 and 3.
Now that's not to say I don't move over as I don't like holding other people up, I just don't like the idea that it's now expected of me to get out of their way every time. You wouldn't expect someone to let you out every time you wanted to turn out of a side road at a T junction
At the end of the day those joining shouldn't expect to be let onto the motorway, and should plan for the possibility that they will have to merge safely with traffic, and those already on the motorway can make life easier for those joining by moving over, so long as they don't effect anyone else in the other lanes by changing lane.
I guess common sense and being aware of what's around you is the order of the day.
There are two reasons for this...
1) People now expect to be let onto a motorway, so if you don't jump out of their way or can't, they get all arsey with you and/or do something stupid like force themselves into the gap which was your braking distance, or start to drive down the hard shoulder
2) By blindly moving over into lane 2 to let those people join, more often than not you cut someone else up and/or force them to take avoiding action. This can very quickly cause a knock on effect to other road users in lane 2 and 3.
Now that's not to say I don't move over as I don't like holding other people up, I just don't like the idea that it's now expected of me to get out of their way every time. You wouldn't expect someone to let you out every time you wanted to turn out of a side road at a T junction
At the end of the day those joining shouldn't expect to be let onto the motorway, and should plan for the possibility that they will have to merge safely with traffic, and those already on the motorway can make life easier for those joining by moving over, so long as they don't effect anyone else in the other lanes by changing lane.
I guess common sense and being aware of what's around you is the order of the day.
Thread Starter
Registered User
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,714
Likes: 1
From: coventry, UK
Although I drive by the ethos of "lets keep traffic moving", I'm not as eager to jump out of peoples way when they are joining the motorway.
There are two reasons for this...
1) People now expect to be let onto a motorway, so if you don't jump out of their way or can't, they get all arsey with you and/or do something stupid like force themselves into the gap which was your braking distance, or start to drive down the hard shoulder
2) By blindly moving over into lane 2 to let those people join, more often than not you cut someone else up and/or force them to take avoiding action. This can very quickly cause a knock on effect to other road users in lane 2 and 3.
Now that's not to say I don't move over as I don't like holding other people up, I just don't like the idea that it's now expected of me to get out of their way every time. You wouldn't expect someone to let you out every time you wanted to turn out of a side road at a T junction
At the end of the day those joining shouldn't expect to be let onto the motorway, and should plan for the possibility that they will have to merge safely with traffic, and those already on the motorway can make life easier for those joining by moving over, so long as they don't effect anyone else in the other lanes by changing lane.
I guess common sense and being aware of what's around you is the order of the day.
There are two reasons for this...
1) People now expect to be let onto a motorway, so if you don't jump out of their way or can't, they get all arsey with you and/or do something stupid like force themselves into the gap which was your braking distance, or start to drive down the hard shoulder
2) By blindly moving over into lane 2 to let those people join, more often than not you cut someone else up and/or force them to take avoiding action. This can very quickly cause a knock on effect to other road users in lane 2 and 3.
Now that's not to say I don't move over as I don't like holding other people up, I just don't like the idea that it's now expected of me to get out of their way every time. You wouldn't expect someone to let you out every time you wanted to turn out of a side road at a T junction
At the end of the day those joining shouldn't expect to be let onto the motorway, and should plan for the possibility that they will have to merge safely with traffic, and those already on the motorway can make life easier for those joining by moving over, so long as they don't effect anyone else in the other lanes by changing lane.
I guess common sense and being aware of what's around you is the order of the day.
Former Moderator
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 24,770
Likes: 311
From: Stanmore
Not so, those joining the motorway are technically in a "Give Way" situation, as hinted at by the "stop in the accelerating lane" part of Roadcraft quoted above.
The trouble with internet discussion of this sort is that people try to applies rules to use in every situation when in reality, each situation should be judged accordingly.
When approaching or passing an on-ramp, I look (both ahead and in the mirror as I pass) to see if anything is on the ramp, and judge their speed relative to mine. Are they:
a) going to slot in ahead of or behind me, or
b) are they on a constant bearing requiring action on my part or their part to avoid a collision.
From that observation I can either move into Lane 2 if it's clear, or adjust my speed depending on my assessment of their probable action (most people will slow down, but some will speed up - this is usually pretty obvious).
In other words, pay attention, and act accordingly.
The trouble with internet discussion of this sort is that people try to applies rules to use in every situation when in reality, each situation should be judged accordingly.
When approaching or passing an on-ramp, I look (both ahead and in the mirror as I pass) to see if anything is on the ramp, and judge their speed relative to mine. Are they:
a) going to slot in ahead of or behind me, or
b) are they on a constant bearing requiring action on my part or their part to avoid a collision.
From that observation I can either move into Lane 2 if it's clear, or adjust my speed depending on my assessment of their probable action (most people will slow down, but some will speed up - this is usually pretty obvious).
In other words, pay attention, and act accordingly.
Registered User
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 12,330
Likes: 0
From: Frustration
Although I drive by the ethos of "lets keep traffic moving", I'm not as eager to jump out of peoples way when they are joining the motorway.
There are two reasons for this...
1) People now expect to be let onto a motorway, so if you don't jump out of their way or can't, they get all arsey with you and/or do something stupid like force themselves into the gap which was your braking distance, or start to drive down the hard shoulder
2) By blindly moving over into lane 2 to let those people join, more often than not you cut someone else up and/or force them to take avoiding action. This can very quickly cause a knock on effect to other road users in lane 2 and 3.
Now that's not to say I don't move over as I don't like holding other people up, I just don't like the idea that it's now expected of me to get out of their way every time. You wouldn't expect someone to let you out every time you wanted to turn out of a side road at a T junction
At the end of the day those joining shouldn't expect to be let onto the motorway, and should plan for the possibility that they will have to merge safely with traffic, and those already on the motorway can make life easier for those joining by moving over, so long as they don't effect anyone else in the other lanes by changing lane.
I guess common sense and being aware of what's around you is the order of the day.
There are two reasons for this...
1) People now expect to be let onto a motorway, so if you don't jump out of their way or can't, they get all arsey with you and/or do something stupid like force themselves into the gap which was your braking distance, or start to drive down the hard shoulder
2) By blindly moving over into lane 2 to let those people join, more often than not you cut someone else up and/or force them to take avoiding action. This can very quickly cause a knock on effect to other road users in lane 2 and 3.
Now that's not to say I don't move over as I don't like holding other people up, I just don't like the idea that it's now expected of me to get out of their way every time. You wouldn't expect someone to let you out every time you wanted to turn out of a side road at a T junction
At the end of the day those joining shouldn't expect to be let onto the motorway, and should plan for the possibility that they will have to merge safely with traffic, and those already on the motorway can make life easier for those joining by moving over, so long as they don't effect anyone else in the other lanes by changing lane.
I guess common sense and being aware of what's around you is the order of the day.
This is one time where I think having a car with good speed helps. Throttle up to 90 ASAP give you a nice clear window to choose how to join. Since brakes offer much more acceleration than your engine at this speed, you have more options open to you becuase you can fit infront of a vehicle or behind a vehicle.
As for the IAM, my Dad (A class 1 Police Driving instructor) doesn't think much of the IAM.
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 10,652
Likes: 17
From: Market Harborough, Leics.
That's precisely what i was taught to do if for whatever reason i found i was unable to join a motorway.
The explanation given was that it is safer to drive along the hard shoulder for a short distance until you can merge into the traffic than stop at the end of the slip road.
From my perspective, if the motorway is busy and if your safely moving over allows someone safely onto the motorway, why wouldn't you do it?
The explanation given was that it is safer to drive along the hard shoulder for a short distance until you can merge into the traffic than stop at the end of the slip road.
From my perspective, if the motorway is busy and if your safely moving over allows someone safely onto the motorway, why wouldn't you do it?