Jailed for 9 months
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From: Kineton, Warwickshire
Originally Posted by Nick Graves,Oct 30 2009, 10:54 AM
Neither are we talking through a village; there are many of those that have a 30mph limit, which is terrifying when front doors open directly onto the roadway. Nasty, Herts, spings to mid as a perfect example.
But that's the speed limit and those who set them know everything and we are drones...
I refuse to be drawn as to whether that stetch of road was sufficiently open enough (Euan has his reservations) for the speed but in principle, it'd be no different from an Autobahn. In fact, if there are no hedges, there's probably less danger of errant deer than there are on an Autobahn. Just because it's an A-bahn doesn't in principle make it any safer than an L-strasse. Except statistically motorways are a lot safet, which is why most speed traps are on such motorways??
That's the trouble, you see; speed kills is as big a lie as guns kill and even as it turns out, smoking kills. What starts off on a perfectly reasonable premise becomes perverted by politiciunts for their own ends, so that it no longer makes any sense at all.
But that's the speed limit and those who set them know everything and we are drones...
I refuse to be drawn as to whether that stetch of road was sufficiently open enough (Euan has his reservations) for the speed but in principle, it'd be no different from an Autobahn. In fact, if there are no hedges, there's probably less danger of errant deer than there are on an Autobahn. Just because it's an A-bahn doesn't in principle make it any safer than an L-strasse. Except statistically motorways are a lot safet, which is why most speed traps are on such motorways??
That's the trouble, you see; speed kills is as big a lie as guns kill and even as it turns out, smoking kills. What starts off on a perfectly reasonable premise becomes perverted by politiciunts for their own ends, so that it no longer makes any sense at all.
I agree, that speed limits as they are now are based on 60's technology and are probably going in the wrong direction (come to Warwickshire, many A-roads are now 50 limit). However, my point is that no matter what you think of them if exceed them then you are liable to some sort of action, if caught.
As I said, I know that stretch of road quite well. It is fairly open but it is narrow (for an A-road) with a couple of laybys as well as the odd farm track, I don't recall the surface being the best. In my opinion given the general road conditions that sort of speed there is certainly reckless.
The big difference between autobahnen and other roads is that the users of autobahn expect other users to be driving a very high speeds - and I have done very high speeds in those situations; however, I made sure the road was clear of other traffic and was fairly open.
With the best will in the world most of us would not be able to tell that the headlight coming towards us on an A-Road was doing 166mph not 126mph or 96mph at distance. At 74m/s the consequences of a mistake (not even by the hairdresser) but by another road user could be catastrophic for all concerned.
I doubt that we are going to agree but as I said, we have a duty of care to other road users whether we like it or not (and whether we like them or not) and this guy obviously doesn't/didn't understand that. It has resulted in him going to prison - will that make a difference to his perspective when he gets back in a car/on a bike after his ban maybe/maybe not.
In my opinion he should have had a long ban, community service and his bike confiscated. There are times and places to drive/ride at those speeds that road, in my opinion, isn't one of those.
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From: Hertford
Originally Posted by GREGSTERWIZ,Oct 30 2009, 10:58 AM
I fail to see the reasoning between personal freedom and speeding at 166 mph
Are you suggesting that, in order to enjoy his personal freedom, this man should be allowed to ride at that speed with no regard for any consequences ?
Or are you suggesting that (one day) we will be subject to imprisonment for minor offences such as exceeding the speed limit by a few mph ?
As I have already stated, it was the excessiveness of this offence which led to a term of imprisonment
And yes, he was made an example of
Are you suggesting that, in order to enjoy his personal freedom, this man should be allowed to ride at that speed with no regard for any consequences ?
Or are you suggesting that (one day) we will be subject to imprisonment for minor offences such as exceeding the speed limit by a few mph ?
As I have already stated, it was the excessiveness of this offence which led to a term of imprisonment
And yes, he was made an example of
It's the wish to CURTAIL personal freedom that's the threat, not his need to display it.
Of course; have you not noticed all the articles about SPECS/GPS road monitoring, etc? All on the back of a religious (and therefore statistically baseless) conviction that exceeding an arbitrary velocity is somehow evil.
Of course he was made an example of; so was Galileo Galilei when he defied ignorant authority! Eppur si muove!
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From: Hertford
Originally Posted by GREGSTERWIZ,Oct 30 2009, 11:09 AM
But surely that is the point
This was an A road and as has been described on here by people who know the road, it was unlikely that the road was free from other road users
At 166 mph it would be impossible for the rider to take in everything that was going on around him (In fact I think he would struggle to see much apart from a blur)
Let's imagine a child crossing the road a quarter of a mile in front of him, or a broken down vehicle, or debris in the carriageway, etc. etc.
Do you think he would have time to react ?
There is only one answer to that question and I think you know what it is
This was an A road and as has been described on here by people who know the road, it was unlikely that the road was free from other road users
At 166 mph it would be impossible for the rider to take in everything that was going on around him (In fact I think he would struggle to see much apart from a blur)
Let's imagine a child crossing the road a quarter of a mile in front of him, or a broken down vehicle, or debris in the carriageway, etc. etc.
Do you think he would have time to react ?
There is only one answer to that question and I think you know what it is
I realise you've proabably not exceeded 70, but one's reactions do sharpen with practice. Indeed, the problem is staying focussed after slowing down again, for the next village.
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From: On another planet
Originally Posted by Nick Graves,Oct 30 2009, 11:15 AM
You really cannot see it?
It's the wish to CURTAIL personal freedom that's the threat, not his need to display it.
Of course; have you not noticed all the articles about SPECS/GPS road monitoring, etc? All on the back of a religious (and therefore statistically baseless) conviction that exceeding an arbitrary velocity is somehow evil.
Of course he was made an example of; so was Galileo Galilei when he defied ignorant authority! Eppur si muove!
It's the wish to CURTAIL personal freedom that's the threat, not his need to display it.
Of course; have you not noticed all the articles about SPECS/GPS road monitoring, etc? All on the back of a religious (and therefore statistically baseless) conviction that exceeding an arbitrary velocity is somehow evil.
Of course he was made an example of; so was Galileo Galilei when he defied ignorant authority! Eppur si muove!
The issue of personal freedom has no place in this argument or in making a defence for speeding
Anti - terrorism surveillance (as you refer to) is a completely seperate issue
Whether it is used for it's stated purpose or for "big brother" to keep an eye on you is another issue
BTW, specs and GPS do not play a major role in this
It is ANPR cameras and they are more widespread than you would imagine
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From: Hertford
Originally Posted by corgi_watkins,Oct 30 2009, 11:11 AM
Ok, I accept the village analogy is about as good or as bad as the motorway one.
I agree, that speed limits as they are now are based on 60's technology and are probably going in the wrong direction (come to Warwickshire, many A-roads are now 50 limit). However, my point is that no matter what you think of them if exceed them then you are liable to some sort of action, if caught.
As I said, I know that stretch of road quite well. It is fairly open but it is narrow (for an A-road) with a couple of laybys as well as the odd farm track, I don't recall the surface being the best. In my opinion given the general road conditions that sort of speed there is certainly reckless.
The big difference between autobahnen and other roads is that the users of autobahn expect other users to be driving a very high speeds - and I have done very high speeds in those situations; however, I made sure the road was clear of other traffic and was fairly open.
With the best will in the world most of us would not be able to tell that the headlight coming towards us on an A-Road was doing 166mph not 126mph or 96mph at distance. At 74m/s the consequences of a mistake (not even by the hairdresser) but by another road user could be catastrophic for all concerned.
I doubt that we are going to agree but as I said, we have a duty of care to other road users whether we like it or not (and whether we like them or not) and this guy obviously doesn't/didn't understand that. It has resulted in him going to prison - will that make a difference to his perspective when he gets back in a car/on a bike after his ban maybe/maybe not.
In my opinion he should have had a long ban, community service and his bike confiscated. There are times and places to drive/ride at those speeds that road, in my opinion, isn't one of those.
I agree, that speed limits as they are now are based on 60's technology and are probably going in the wrong direction (come to Warwickshire, many A-roads are now 50 limit). However, my point is that no matter what you think of them if exceed them then you are liable to some sort of action, if caught.
As I said, I know that stretch of road quite well. It is fairly open but it is narrow (for an A-road) with a couple of laybys as well as the odd farm track, I don't recall the surface being the best. In my opinion given the general road conditions that sort of speed there is certainly reckless.
The big difference between autobahnen and other roads is that the users of autobahn expect other users to be driving a very high speeds - and I have done very high speeds in those situations; however, I made sure the road was clear of other traffic and was fairly open.
With the best will in the world most of us would not be able to tell that the headlight coming towards us on an A-Road was doing 166mph not 126mph or 96mph at distance. At 74m/s the consequences of a mistake (not even by the hairdresser) but by another road user could be catastrophic for all concerned.
I doubt that we are going to agree but as I said, we have a duty of care to other road users whether we like it or not (and whether we like them or not) and this guy obviously doesn't/didn't understand that. It has resulted in him going to prison - will that make a difference to his perspective when he gets back in a car/on a bike after his ban maybe/maybe not.
In my opinion he should have had a long ban, community service and his bike confiscated. There are times and places to drive/ride at those speeds that road, in my opinion, isn't one of those.
Except you used to get grungies in R4s and 2CVs grovelling into the fast lane of the Autobahn too. And it's well-known the slow drivers cause accidents.
Generally speaking, it's one of the reasons driving fast is frustrating; no sooner do you get to a respectable velocity, you're hard on the brakes for the mere presence of another vehicle or something. It's not much fun, unless you get that really rare piece of road.
Even Chris Franklin was caught out when some numpty pulled out in front of him whilst testing a customer's car at far lower speed and he couldn't completely avoid the prang.
But none of the foregoing happened in the case of this biker, so it's in reality it's not that clear-cut to question his judgement on that particular occasion.
And as I say, I doubt it was actually that for which he was being made an example of. Pity they don't treat real crimes with real victims in a similar vein.
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From: Kineton, Warwickshire
Originally Posted by Nick Graves,Oct 30 2009, 11:30 AM
Certainly that's all true.
Except you used to get grungies in R4s and 2CVs grovelling into the fast lane of the Autobahn too. And it's well-known the slow drivers cause accidents.
Generally speaking, it's one of the reasons driving fast is frustrating; no sooner do you get to a respectable velocity, you're hard on the brakes for the mere presence of another vehicle or something. It's not much fun, unless you get that really rare piece of road.
Even Chris Franklin was caught out when some numpty pulled out in front of him whilst testing a customer's car at far lower speed and he couldn't completely avoid the prang.
But none of the foregoing happened in the case of this biker, so it's in reality it's not that clear-cut to question his judgement on that particular occasion.
And as I say, I doubt it was actually that for which he was being made an example of. Pity they don't treat real crimes with real victims in a similar vein.
Except you used to get grungies in R4s and 2CVs grovelling into the fast lane of the Autobahn too. And it's well-known the slow drivers cause accidents.
Generally speaking, it's one of the reasons driving fast is frustrating; no sooner do you get to a respectable velocity, you're hard on the brakes for the mere presence of another vehicle or something. It's not much fun, unless you get that really rare piece of road.
Even Chris Franklin was caught out when some numpty pulled out in front of him whilst testing a customer's car at far lower speed and he couldn't completely avoid the prang.
But none of the foregoing happened in the case of this biker, so it's in reality it's not that clear-cut to question his judgement on that particular occasion.
And as I say, I doubt it was actually that for which he was being made an example of. Pity they don't treat real crimes with real victims in a similar vein.
After reunification the accident rate went up on autobahnen for a while... the East Germans would either take to them in their Trabants and become involved with Herr West Germany in his Porsche travelling at warp factor 9 or they would buy a cheap Audi 200 (or whatever) and drive it as fast as they could and crash because they couldn't comprehend the speed....
Slow drivers are often the cause of accidents; however, we have to accept that there are slow drivers on the road and drive accordingly. Frustrating, yes but , unfortunately, a fact of life. Slow drivers, in this case, are failing to take into account the reasonable expectations of other road users. The same goes for fast drivers too.
Yes, nothing happened in the case of this biker but, knowing the road, it is my view that his speed was excessive. Of course, he can ride at 166mph but he has to accept the consequences of his actions even if they are harsh and they undoubtedly made an example of him; however, we don't, of course, know the full facts here...
For the record, I'm not being holier than thou with regard to speeding here. I have been known to drive in excess of the posted limit
and we all take that risk when we do.As I said above, modern sentencing is often a joke and it needs to be sorted out and I agree with your final sentence.
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From: sideways with an OWL!
Now THIS is why I think the 9 month jail sentence for this biker is a complete and utter disgrace and completely and utterly disproportionate:
http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/uk-world...86908-21786987/
http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/uk-world...86908-21786987/
