M3 Cab
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From: North Yorks
[QUOTE=gaddafi,May 12 2008, 07:55 PM] You can get things to match it or beat it performance wise - if you tweak them, but they will hardly be what most describe as a motor with some class.
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From: sideways with an OWL!
The M cars are supposedly different to the Audi S/RS cars. The RS6 was completely uninvolving, and it was indeed designed for you to travel quickly. Same with the RS4 (old one). YOu could be doing 140 and not notice. Same with AMG I'd guess. I'm having my test drive in the M3 on saturday so I'll reserve my judgement on the M cars until then. But my biggest concern is the weight of the thing. But it's only 300kg heavier than the S, with 100bhp more. So it could go either way.
The lotus garage has a mint S1 elise which is cheap. I'm considering running that for a bit if I don't like the M3.
The lotus garage has a mint S1 elise which is cheap. I'm considering running that for a bit if I don't like the M3.
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The M3 certainly feels heavier than an S, however it feels much much more solid and imho still feels very agile. Handling wise its chalk and cheese, the S2000 never made me feel like I wanted to press on more, the M3 does - roundabouts make you want to push more and more, great fun.
I had my heart set on a noggy blue RS4 avant and found "the perfect one" however I was utterly dissapointed when we went for a drive - I was set to buy it until we took off down the road. I could only describe it as neutral and un involving - like I said I was gutted it was like this - I really wanted it! The thing that helped kill it was my mate gave me a lift in his M3 to see it. He opened it up onto the motorway and the noise it made just made me want one! Then I found you could fold the seats down to make a huge load space and I was sold(I needed to be able to get a couple of bikes in which I can easily.)
I had my heart set on a noggy blue RS4 avant and found "the perfect one" however I was utterly dissapointed when we went for a drive - I was set to buy it until we took off down the road. I could only describe it as neutral and un involving - like I said I was gutted it was like this - I really wanted it! The thing that helped kill it was my mate gave me a lift in his M3 to see it. He opened it up onto the motorway and the noise it made just made me want one! Then I found you could fold the seats down to make a huge load space and I was sold(I needed to be able to get a couple of bikes in which I can easily.)
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From: Hertford
Originally Posted by MarkB,May 13 2008, 08:49 AM
I can't get past the feeling that all these cars are for people who want to travel quickly, rather than drive quickly IYSWIM.
Technological tour des forces for sure, but not for me. They have a place, but a big car has to overcome big weights shifting around, and the level of chassis engineering required to make that possible seems beyond most manufacturers so they rely on insulating the driver and using electronics to keep the thing stable. The RS6 I drove was mind-bendingly quick for a 4 seater estate, but closer a experience to travelling by train than driving a Seven for example.
The M5 may well be the exception, but until you let me loose somewhere other than the road I'll have to reserve judgement
Technological tour des forces for sure, but not for me. They have a place, but a big car has to overcome big weights shifting around, and the level of chassis engineering required to make that possible seems beyond most manufacturers so they rely on insulating the driver and using electronics to keep the thing stable. The RS6 I drove was mind-bendingly quick for a 4 seater estate, but closer a experience to travelling by train than driving a Seven for example.
The M5 may well be the exception, but until you let me loose somewhere other than the road I'll have to reserve judgement
Disconnect the FREDs on an Audi to see what an evil pig of a car they truly are.
The older M5s are hilarious on a track day; Starsky & Hutch spring to mind. Talk about deluded owners completely missing the point. Although to be fair, it does look quite fun; 50/50 mass distribution etc, etc. So I would too, probably.
Any saloon car tends to be a bit of a barge. But that's why Lotuses and S2000s and stuff can be very tiresome on a long journey.
What sort of concerns me IS the tendency for cars generally to be moving in that direction; I'm sure the Accurist GT5000 and Insane GT-R are monumentally capable, but if it's like a Playwithyourselfstation, WTF's the point?
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From: Leigh-On-Sea
It's a shame to read that about the Audi RSs, I'm very interested in fast estates and really want everyone to be wrong about how dull they are.
Is it really too difficult to make them the way they should be or are the buyers only interested in straight line speed? I suspect the latter.
Mind you, I'm starting to wonder if a fun barge is such a good idea, it's looks like I've managed to warp the discs on my Legacy. Oops
Is it really too difficult to make them the way they should be or are the buyers only interested in straight line speed? I suspect the latter.
Mind you, I'm starting to wonder if a fun barge is such a good idea, it's looks like I've managed to warp the discs on my Legacy. Oops
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From: Hertford
Don't worry;
I went past a carpet crawly sweaty suit in a 330d who felt the need to overtake me and then hold me up by grovelling along at 80 until he registered that I was off school the day they taught playing silly far king games.
Just when you think there's some hope, you realise that the sterotypes are there for a reason.
Bit like Jap cars with undersized brakes, really!
I went past a carpet crawly sweaty suit in a 330d who felt the need to overtake me and then hold me up by grovelling along at 80 until he registered that I was off school the day they taught playing silly far king games.
Just when you think there's some hope, you realise that the sterotypes are there for a reason.
Bit like Jap cars with undersized brakes, really!
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From: Survivalist enclave
[QUOTE=MarkB,May 13 2008, 08:49 AM] I can't get past the feeling that all these cars are for people who want to travel quickly, rather than drive quickly IYSWIM.
Technological tour des forces for sure, but not for me.
Technological tour des forces for sure, but not for me.
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From: Hertford
I'd say pleasant to drive, personally.
BMWs have well weighted & spaced controls (by German standards) and the mass distribution etc, etc.
The NSX, is, like many Hondas, pleasant to drive.
A lot of car are like that; no really nasty traits, and engaging, rewarding nature.
I'd argue that other cars require more of a fight, which makes them wearing, but entertaining nonetheless, such as Ferrairs and Loti and possibly S2000s. Or in the case of some of the M's rivals/compatriots, poorly weighted and spaced controls, in order to make them SEEM more impressive than they really are.
Of course, some cars have basically sound characteristics, but are too dumbed-down to pass the well-weighted (and therefore rewarding) control test. Many Vauxhalls/Toyota/Ppingponggs spring to mind and are simply unrewarding/pointless to drive
BMWs have well weighted & spaced controls (by German standards) and the mass distribution etc, etc.
The NSX, is, like many Hondas, pleasant to drive.
A lot of car are like that; no really nasty traits, and engaging, rewarding nature.
I'd argue that other cars require more of a fight, which makes them wearing, but entertaining nonetheless, such as Ferrairs and Loti and possibly S2000s. Or in the case of some of the M's rivals/compatriots, poorly weighted and spaced controls, in order to make them SEEM more impressive than they really are.
Of course, some cars have basically sound characteristics, but are too dumbed-down to pass the well-weighted (and therefore rewarding) control test. Many Vauxhalls/Toyota/Ppingponggs spring to mind and are simply unrewarding/pointless to drive