GC84

Secondary topic: Nice DriveTribe video on the "new" 911 GT3. I'm not a Porsche bore, but it seems to me to have the same/similar engine to the previous GT3 RS; revs to 9Krpm (jumped out at me for obvious reasons) and peak power of 493bhp at 8250rpm(also familiar).
If you don't watch the whole video, jump to 5min25 for an impressive sound at redline, complete with oversteer.

It got me thinking, and apologies if this has been covered in some form, but if Porsche can still produce an engine that revs to 9K, has peak power at high rpm, high hp/litre, sounds great, and is naturally aspirated, why doesn't Honda? They were once king of this breed of engine, why all turbo and hybrid in their sports car applications?

Is it cost to produce? For some reason(economy and emissions i guess) every engine these days seems to be direct injection, and i hear that those systems are very expensive to make them work at higher that 7000rpm...

Perception that it's not what the market wants? Maybe we want boring sounding turbo torque machines to go with all the FREDs that are forced upon us (new term I learnt here )

Is it the potentially very high VED/emissions taxs for a brand that can't justify that as much as a Porsche?

Thoughts?

Mike RT4

I personally think it is all to do with whomever is running the "shop". At present Honda (IMO) have completely lost their way and are just producing mainly soulless cars to placate the green brigade (current CTR excepted). Toyota seem to have realised the need for different levels of "halo" cars and have announced that they are going to build new replacements for the old discontinued sports models (Supra, MR2, GT86 etc).

So it is nothing to do with not having the ability, but everything to do with not having the willingness to produce such cars, as they are currently seen as not being the direction Honda want to go in. Fortunately money always talks, so if Honda see Toyota's profits increase after their own direction change, I suspect we will then see Honda follow suit (fingers crossed).

I hope the S2000 replacement is not too far down the planning stage to stop it from being something similar to the current NSX, as that would be a moving away from the S2000s USP and what it is all about. I am hoping the same team that did the handling dynamics (but not the stylist ) of the 2017 CTR get involved, as it would be great to have a track orientated S2000 .

Nick Graves

It's almost impossible to do a >7,000 RPM engine without turbos these days, thanks to the World Gov't. Except in very low-volume specials.

Hence the 718 sounding like a T3 Transporter/STi. The GT3 is very much leveraged off the back of the 'cooking' 911 models. Also, Porsche is another VW these days, which I believe gives them more 'greenie' volume.

For Honda, one might argue that cars such as the NSX and new S2000 ought to be high-revving screamers, but Honda tend to be a bit greenie Kool-Aid and also want to leverage motors with their mass-market stuff, being a smaller company.

So we're stuck with it for the foreseeable.

It's largely why I have lost interest in modern cars. Plus they are all so bloody ugly...

Nick Graves

Just seen Mike's comment.

The new S2000 it seems might use the CTR engine - or possibly a V4 version of the NSX unit, as a wilder rumour. Expect something at Tokyo in the Autumn.

There will be a 2+2 Prelude version, as well.

Plus apparently a 3.0 V6 Acura coupe off the same plank.

So it's a bit like the Nissan Fairlylardy plank.

It might even be stretched to provide the basis of the next Legend/RLX.

Heinz '57

Sniff Petrol

panda25

Good lord, this taken over my unicorn car spot. Excuse me while I go change my underpants.

MB

Great bit of kit, but I still struggle a bit with these type of cars. I owned a mint 997 GT3 club sport, and in balance didn't enjoy it that much.

Now that it's even more ridiculously quick, whatndo you use it for? Can't push it on the road as it will only ever be at about 60% of what you can enjoy.

Yep you can enjoy it on track... however there are far quicker and more fun track cars, like Caterham / Atom / Radical things. And if you have the wedge for a new GT3 it's not likely to be your only car. I have many times more fun in the S / Caterham than I did in the GT3, which suffered badly from understeer.

So I really like it, sounds mental etc, and they will sell thousands of them... but not for me.

I put them GTR in that category too, only that doesn't really do trackdays either so never really understood that either!

unclefester

You have been in the fortunate position of being able to try and see based on actual skill. I find the S2000 more than quick enough for real world road conditions - most of the time, the Aygo outdrags most cars, especially with this new reliance on stopstart tech and focus on eco driving. I swear most folk have a 4" thick sponge glued to the throttle pedal.

Something about being able to use as much of the performance as you can makes the car more fun, as long as it's not a dog to live with / drive. Off to test drive a Fiesta ST with the Mountune kit fitted at the weekend, much fun is promised.

gaddafi

The majority of buyers (of 'performance cars') choose their car based on a psychological version of Top Trumps

Many aren't remotely interested in limit points, slip angles and 'the limit'

We should all drive a 118D

Oh, hang on...

When I buy my next silly car it won't be going near a track

It will be bought for the feel good, which doesn't include dicing with idiots in £2K Clios on a track or sales reps in A4 diesels on the M27

I looked at a GT3 only last week - thought it would be fun to pose about in but never for a moment entertained the thought of racing the fecker

gaddafi

yep, if the track is your thing buy a bleedin' track car

much tosh spouted by people claiming they need a car that can do road and track

if you can afford a GTR/GT3 you can afford two cars, each suited to its chief environment