cheshire_carper

In fairness the Ford issue is not a particularly relevant comparator. That occurred at a time when secrets could be hidden well and the little people could not share information so readily.

A story like that today would likely destroy a brand. Toyota know this, that's the difference;not their caring compassion.

ianl

So what about the German companies just stonewalling problems with their products, as per the BMW N47 engines notorious timing chain issues as alluded to above? BMW's reluctance to issue a recall to remedy this (admittedly unlikely to be life-threatening, but still major) issue appears to be in stark contrast to Toyota's approach to dealing with problems with its products?

soulcrew

i am driving a gm car, so expect recalls at any time

CHIPPO

How about my Audi Stop/start system problem that Audi just bury there head about and have stated that they will not do a dam thing about .

Even stated the obvious safety issue again Zero response

fluffyninja

Recalls are normally done in conjunction with VOSA and it tends to be a joint decision.
Rule of thumb though is a safety issue is an automatic recall; anything else is voluntary.

The BMW N47 issue ianl mentions isn't a dirct safety issue so it is up to BMW if they want to recall. Honestly I've never heard of the problem (never looked into problems on BMW's either) so BMW won't want to risk bringing that kind of thing to light by use of a recall.

Similarly not sure what the problem is with your stop/start system Chippo but again, not a direct safety problem I would have thought hence no recall

Nick Graves

I've generally felt that when it comes to warranty/recall issues, the Japanese companies seem to be more inclined to pay up & look big. Compared to the Euro ones...

Maybe because they can afford to, due to traditionally fewer issues. Whether that will continue due to FREDs causing issues everywhere (the new Fit has already had several for its DCT firmware in Japan, for example) remains to be seen.

cheshire_carper

I was going to reply with the safety comment but fluffy has done it. Very different arguments. As I said earlier, a Ford approach as per the safety gamble of old, would likely destroy a current brand.

That issue is very old and we still see it as shocking. Most law schools use it to train students in a number of facets including Corp manslaughter. If ford did that now, I would expect the company would go under. Hence Toyotas current approach.

tailhappy

I hadn't either til I saw it on watchdog!

Watchdog on faulty beemers

tailhappy

Depends if you were like the poor bloke in the outside lane of the motorway with sudden loss of power (no brake servo or power steering). I'd say that was a tad risky at rush hour

fluffyninja

I did some testing on lost vacuum to brake servos a few years ago. Driving around car parks with disconnected vacuum systems at gradually increasing speeds. Still easy enough to get the ABS to activate. Yeah does take more force but again not necessarily something to be judged as a safety issues. Brakes are still functional and we are not talking about me using all of my considerable mass to get the brakes to lock.

Additionally you typically have about half a dozen brake presses in the reserve before you lose brake assistance fully. You still have unservo'd brakes though

This is where the distinction between safety/not safety starts to blur

Engine failure is not typically classed as a safety issue either. Too many other variables for a single function to be a safety problem