I just saw on another forum that a guy installed a set of these and says his handling was improved a great deal. Tighter turn ins and stability.

Anyone here ever had experience with these?



http://www.ebay.com/itm/Manzo-USA-Fr...-/161219504799

 

I havent used any since the spoon pieces are wayyyy too much $.

for $100 i'd use em for sure

 

Oh that's what those are! Seen those before. I have heard of the sub-frames shifting and I guess this could reduce those effects.

Guess I will be re-torquing and checking mine over the winter. I don't see these providing additional rigidity to the car that would be noticeable.

 

I do not have collars, but the bigger concern is, "Is this the weakest link in your car's rigidity?" If you still have OEM bushings, I would guess not.

Rubber bushings flex and distort a lot. Think about how accurately your alignment is adjusted (10ths of a degree?) Now consider how drastically those perfectly adjusted angles change when the suspension is under load and all the bushings are moving 1/4" each. If you could measure a car under load, you might see positive camber! (Yes, I cringed the first time this was pointed out to me.)

As with all changes, start with the weakest link and improve it first. Adding rigidly elsewhere, will only put more strain on your bushings, wearing them out faster, and worsening the overall problem.

On a related note, hard bushings will rattle your dental work, so be sure you're ready for the change.

 

I've see. Cars where hitting a hard bump will move the subframe. This is where the collars come in. Now the suspension has to absorb the bump.

 

Sorry for lack of clarity, bumps are altogether different. When I describe load, I mean side-load resulting from cornering >1g on a racetrack or AutoX.

My understanding of the collars is that they take the play out of the factory holes. If the holes are larger than the bolt, there is room for things to shift under load. By placing collars around the bolt, there is no room for slipping.

However, if the bolts are properly torqued, the components will not slip under "normal" driving conditions. If you are driving hard enough to cause the subframe to slip in the holes, you are certainly compressing the bejesus out of the bushings. Hence my above comment.

 

you are correct, there really shouldnt be much difference on nice smooth pavement etc. I'd rather put the forces into the bushings and whatnot, those bounce back, if you move the subframe its not moving back by itself. lol

Proper torque on the subframe bolts is key!

 

Thanks guys. The advert looked like it might be snake oil so that's why I asked.

 

I cannot speak for the eBay version, but in general, collars are a legitimate mod.
...perhaps not the lowest-hanging fruit as far as performance improvement.

 

I've never seen the witness marks moved or smeared on my subframe and I've lowered it five times. You know how I drive Lee. I think the subframe bolts are doing a fine job. There's 4 large (14 x 1.5mm) bolts torqued to 85 ft/lbs, and 2 more smaller ones torqued to 46.