George W. Bush is a
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From: This is not my house!
Originally Posted by p0pe,Nov 3 2004, 03:03 PM
Dude I was joking around, it wasn't a serious followup nor was meant to contribute to the conversation in any way. This is the corner, isn't it?
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From: This is not my house!
Originally Posted by PeaceLove&S2K,Nov 3 2004, 03:27 PM
A corner divided against itself... oh wait I've already said that. 
Take it easy folks. I'm bumped about the outcome of the election as well, but it's not the end of the world... yet...
Take it easy folks. I'm bumped about the outcome of the election as well, but it's not the end of the world... yet...
LOL!
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From: Nowhere
Originally Posted by p0pe,Nov 3 2004, 05:39 PM
I agree. Gas and oil prices are not subject to the law of supply and demand, and crude oil prices have not risen because China and India are buying more oil because of their expanding economies and increasing demand. Prices have not been affected by the busy hurricane season which crippled domestic production from the Gulf of Mexico either. It's all because of dubya and his craaaazy warrrz. [/sarcasm] 
I know you're trying to joke, but the entire equation of gas/oil prices is not supply & demand. Yes, supply is down from the hurricanes (I believe the Gulf is running at just under 90% now, though it's been slow to come back up); and demand is up from China (primarily). But there are other factors that outweigh these:
1) Nature of the trade. Oil is traded on commodities markets. These are people buying "paper oil" trying to make money off them. Thus, like the stock market, reactions often defy logic, and prices go up sometimes regardless of circumstances.
2) Fear factor. If those traders think supplies may be damaged (as they were in Iraq after the US invasion) that drives prices up even if the supply isn't actually affected. The fear factor also shows up in Nigeria and other producers who have very instable situations. The "fear factor" is often 10% or more of the current price of crude - and it's going to be higher with a "war president" in office. The commodities traders fear terrorist attacks on supplies, invasions of oil producing countries (even if long term it allows for increased supplies), etc. This is where W comes in.
3) Refinery capacity limitations. The blame for this is widespread, but our refineries simply can't do any more. Most are running at 100% and often delaying required maintenence until transitions. Not a good way to run a commodity production industry. This all ties back to oil because when gas (or any other oil byproduct) prices rise due to limitations in refining, crude often goes up with it.
4) X factors. Shipping limitations, strikes, etc. Lot of these floating around, and when supply capacity is running around 98% and refinery capacity in the US is running around 99%, it doesn't take much to trigger price increases.
Then again, you already knew all that.
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From: San Diego, CA
I think the USD affects oil price too (and thus the U.S. economy, trade, etc), since OPEC has agreed to sell oil only in USD a long time ago.
The USD is worth much less today than it was a few years ago. Assuming the demand for crude oil stays the same, this would mean that oil prices should go up. After taking currency exchange into account, Europe and everywhere else probably is not nearly as badly affected by oil price "hike" as we are.
The USD is worth much less today than it was a few years ago. Assuming the demand for crude oil stays the same, this would mean that oil prices should go up. After taking currency exchange into account, Europe and everywhere else probably is not nearly as badly affected by oil price "hike" as we are.
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From: Pt. A to Pt. B via VTEC!!
Originally Posted by WestSideBilly,Nov 3 2004, 06:47 PM
This is why I said "I should probably qualify that last statement, but I doubt anyone who disagrees would be able to grasp the logic."
I know you're trying to joke, but the entire equation of gas/oil prices is not supply & demand. Yes, supply is down from the hurricanes (I believe the Gulf is running at just under 90% now, though it's been slow to come back up); and demand is up from China (primarily). But there are other factors that outweigh these:
1) Nature of the trade. Oil is traded on commodities markets. These are people buying "paper oil" trying to make money off them. Thus, like the stock market, reactions often defy logic, and prices go up sometimes regardless of circumstances.
2) Fear factor. If those traders think supplies may be damaged (as they were in Iraq after the US invasion) that drives prices up even if the supply isn't actually affected. The fear factor also shows up in Nigeria and other producers who have very instable situations. The "fear factor" is often 10% or more of the current price of crude - and it's going to be higher with a "war president" in office. The commodities traders fear terrorist attacks on supplies, invasions of oil producing countries (even if long term it allows for increased supplies), etc. This is where W comes in.
3) Refinery capacity limitations. The blame for this is widespread, but our refineries simply can't do any more. Most are running at 100% and often delaying required maintenence until transitions. Not a good way to run a commodity production industry. This all ties back to oil because when gas (or any other oil byproduct) prices rise due to limitations in refining, crude often goes up with it.
4) X factors. Shipping limitations, strikes, etc. Lot of these floating around, and when supply capacity is running around 98% and refinery capacity in the US is running around 99%, it doesn't take much to trigger price increases.
Then again, you already knew all that.
I know you're trying to joke, but the entire equation of gas/oil prices is not supply & demand. Yes, supply is down from the hurricanes (I believe the Gulf is running at just under 90% now, though it's been slow to come back up); and demand is up from China (primarily). But there are other factors that outweigh these:
1) Nature of the trade. Oil is traded on commodities markets. These are people buying "paper oil" trying to make money off them. Thus, like the stock market, reactions often defy logic, and prices go up sometimes regardless of circumstances.
2) Fear factor. If those traders think supplies may be damaged (as they were in Iraq after the US invasion) that drives prices up even if the supply isn't actually affected. The fear factor also shows up in Nigeria and other producers who have very instable situations. The "fear factor" is often 10% or more of the current price of crude - and it's going to be higher with a "war president" in office. The commodities traders fear terrorist attacks on supplies, invasions of oil producing countries (even if long term it allows for increased supplies), etc. This is where W comes in.
3) Refinery capacity limitations. The blame for this is widespread, but our refineries simply can't do any more. Most are running at 100% and often delaying required maintenence until transitions. Not a good way to run a commodity production industry. This all ties back to oil because when gas (or any other oil byproduct) prices rise due to limitations in refining, crude often goes up with it.
4) X factors. Shipping limitations, strikes, etc. Lot of these floating around, and when supply capacity is running around 98% and refinery capacity in the US is running around 99%, it doesn't take much to trigger price increases.
Then again, you already knew all that.
