NCLB
Former Moderator
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 52,827
Likes: 17
From: State of Confusion
I won't get into the funding side of NCLB, because that's not my arena by any stretch. I will, however, give my opinion on the state of primary and secondary education in this nation.
The United States is blessed with one of the best (if not THE best) college/university systems in the world. People from all over the globe come to this country every year to take advantage of the deep and diverse education available in the higher level education we have to offer.
Unfortunately, the primary and secondary education system is in shambles. We historically and continually underfund the system and it has lived up to that funding quandry. In other words, the system is showing signs of not only stress...but failure.
One of the major tenets of NCLB seems to be standardized testing. While I think it is important to test students to gauge their comprehension of the variety of subjects that they are taught in the classes.
However, the standardized tests...and the increasing reliance on the results of these tests...has caused the curriculum to become increasingly narrow AND the teachers teach to the test...as opposed to teaching the students how to think and giving them a broad basis for knowledge that could serve them for a lifetime.
Coming from a family of teachers (my mom, my aunt and uncle and a close family friend), I am saddened by the reduction in the diversity of education and the continued undervalue of the teachers providing this basis for education.
That said, as a soon to be step parent, I'm sickened by how uninvolved many parents are in the education and life of their children. We have all (myself included at times) become far too lazy about our involvement. Those of us responsible for the upbringing of this current generation of children in primary and secondary schools MUST become engaged in what our children are learning and how they are applying that learning outside of the classroom.
What being involved in the lives of Robyn's 3 young boys has taught me is that I've got a LOT to learn about being what I consider to be a good parent...
NCLB certainly isn't helping...
The United States is blessed with one of the best (if not THE best) college/university systems in the world. People from all over the globe come to this country every year to take advantage of the deep and diverse education available in the higher level education we have to offer.
Unfortunately, the primary and secondary education system is in shambles. We historically and continually underfund the system and it has lived up to that funding quandry. In other words, the system is showing signs of not only stress...but failure.
One of the major tenets of NCLB seems to be standardized testing. While I think it is important to test students to gauge their comprehension of the variety of subjects that they are taught in the classes.
However, the standardized tests...and the increasing reliance on the results of these tests...has caused the curriculum to become increasingly narrow AND the teachers teach to the test...as opposed to teaching the students how to think and giving them a broad basis for knowledge that could serve them for a lifetime.
Coming from a family of teachers (my mom, my aunt and uncle and a close family friend), I am saddened by the reduction in the diversity of education and the continued undervalue of the teachers providing this basis for education.
That said, as a soon to be step parent, I'm sickened by how uninvolved many parents are in the education and life of their children. We have all (myself included at times) become far too lazy about our involvement. Those of us responsible for the upbringing of this current generation of children in primary and secondary schools MUST become engaged in what our children are learning and how they are applying that learning outside of the classroom.
What being involved in the lives of Robyn's 3 young boys has taught me is that I've got a LOT to learn about being what I consider to be a good parent...
NCLB certainly isn't helping...
Member
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 82,468
Likes: 1,193
I agree with alot of what Brunt just wrote, especially about the lack of parental involvement.
Correct me if I am wrong, but doesn't the standarized tests/testing bascially end at the 8th grade level?(Not talking about the SAT's or the like) I don't see a problem in the K-8th grades being tested every year, if just to find out what level those students are at. There should be a minium requirement that a student must reach before they advance to the next level.
We are turning out way too many kids that cannot read & write & do math at an 8th grade level-yet we still promote them to junior high school/high school.
The parents of these kids have got to get over the stigma of having their child held back so that they can get the education that will bring them up to level that should be at. I don't know if if the answer is tutoring, private schools, or holding a child back 2-3 years until they get where they have the tools to go to the next level.
Maybe every single schoolkid, be they in 3rd grade in Orlando, Florida be taught from the same schoolbook/lesson plan as a kid in New Orleans, as a kid in Nome, Alaska, as a kid in the Bronx.
Maybe the school day needs to be longer, the school week goes to 6 days, or the school year gets longer, more widespread use of vouchers, or a combination of everything needs to be done.
Maybe these aren't the answers but the current system is in shambles and we, as a country, simply cannot afford 25-50-75 more years of the exact same educational system.
At least NCLB is a change from the current system-and a change is better than no change.
Correct me if I am wrong, but doesn't the standarized tests/testing bascially end at the 8th grade level?(Not talking about the SAT's or the like) I don't see a problem in the K-8th grades being tested every year, if just to find out what level those students are at. There should be a minium requirement that a student must reach before they advance to the next level.
We are turning out way too many kids that cannot read & write & do math at an 8th grade level-yet we still promote them to junior high school/high school.
The parents of these kids have got to get over the stigma of having their child held back so that they can get the education that will bring them up to level that should be at. I don't know if if the answer is tutoring, private schools, or holding a child back 2-3 years until they get where they have the tools to go to the next level.
Maybe every single schoolkid, be they in 3rd grade in Orlando, Florida be taught from the same schoolbook/lesson plan as a kid in New Orleans, as a kid in Nome, Alaska, as a kid in the Bronx.
Maybe the school day needs to be longer, the school week goes to 6 days, or the school year gets longer, more widespread use of vouchers, or a combination of everything needs to be done.
Maybe these aren't the answers but the current system is in shambles and we, as a country, simply cannot afford 25-50-75 more years of the exact same educational system.
At least NCLB is a change from the current system-and a change is better than no change.
Registered User
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 12,760
Likes: 0
From: ghettoville, abq, nm
Originally Posted by brantshali,Mar 29 2006, 05:15 PM
Unfortunately, the primary and secondary education system is in shambles. We historically and continually underfund the system and it has lived up to that funding quandry. In other words, the system is showing signs of not only stress...but failure.
IMD,YH,O (in my
, yet humble, opinion)
Moderator
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 109,426
Likes: 1,648
From: SJC
Alright, I've been holding back. . . .here goes:
I used to be a music teacher in an economically disadavantaged and multicultural school district. Yes, pretty much the ghetto.
Why I got out: found out that in preparation for contract negotiations, the District decided to raid my grant funding. They're permitted to do this if they declare deficit spending for that Fiscal Year, which they did. They had declining enrollment THAT DAY (yes DAY) they took the yearly allotment tally for per-pupil funding versus the same day the year before. The District at the time had $35M in the bank. . . over the stateguidlines for surplus.
Unions: I was a member of the union. Moreover, I was an alternate delegate to the CTA state council. I firmly believe that *a* Union is necessity. The opportunities for abuse are readily there, and I do believe that there should be a collective body looking out for my interests. That said. . . whoah boy, the CTA/NEA is a juggernaut that is beyond ridiculous. However, it's really a copascetic dance the NEA and the lawmakers of this country both participate in. . .
The idiocy starts when both the State and The Union go hand-in-hand to the Kool Aid, and believe that every population can be taught the same way. The needs, funding, and structure of rural schools is VERY different than for Urban schools. Nowadays, even the needs of a bedroom community school district are completely different. Every teacher knows this, but by having the NEA address each piece of legislatation as a "Yay" or "Nay" action item, it becomes a morass. If teachers want change, they have to spell it out EXPLICITLY using solid research and being pro-active, not waiting for a legislator to whip up a bill.
In my perfect world, there'd be a Teacher's Union that'd function half as the NEA, protecting teacher's working hours and conditions, but also would be something akin to the Bar Association, where we'd promote teaching methods and come out with real publicity about how we'd collectively feel about legislation and governance.
Lastly, before folks go off simply "bashing" the NEA, you have to know how "the sausage gets made." I got a good illustration of this when I went to a State Council meeting. In California, it goes something like this:
1. A principal at a small elementary school is being really ineffective. Pissing off the staff with last-minute changes without justification, more meetings than are necessary, and preventing the union members to meet.
2. Said school happens to be in Los Angeles Unified School District
3. LA Unified is large enough to have a quorum to bring the item to State Council.
4. We're throwing several thousand dollars at LA Unified, and threatening armageddon, because one principal wants to be king, rather than just listen to the staff.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
My suggestions to make public schools better:
1. Figure out which students you're going to teach. If you're not going to teach some percentage of population, then figure out what you're going to do with them.
2. Allow flexibility in governance and funding to allow rural schools, urban schools, and suburban schools to get the money they need.
3. Have standardized tests on the standardized curriculum at the end of the year. Don't pass? Go straight to summer school and retake. Don't pass again. . . get hauled off to remediation.
4. Strict parent penalties for not having the child getting schooled.
5. Strict parent penalties for having the child attending outside of their attendance area w/o proper documentation.
6. Use research-based methods to address deficient ELs.
7. Use research-based methods in instruction and governance.
8. Have separate principals and deans of students. In other words, have a bureaucrat run the school, have an educator run the instruction; maybe even have a third person handle student discipline and counselling issues.
/rant
I used to be a music teacher in an economically disadavantaged and multicultural school district. Yes, pretty much the ghetto.
Why I got out: found out that in preparation for contract negotiations, the District decided to raid my grant funding. They're permitted to do this if they declare deficit spending for that Fiscal Year, which they did. They had declining enrollment THAT DAY (yes DAY) they took the yearly allotment tally for per-pupil funding versus the same day the year before. The District at the time had $35M in the bank. . . over the stateguidlines for surplus.
Unions: I was a member of the union. Moreover, I was an alternate delegate to the CTA state council. I firmly believe that *a* Union is necessity. The opportunities for abuse are readily there, and I do believe that there should be a collective body looking out for my interests. That said. . . whoah boy, the CTA/NEA is a juggernaut that is beyond ridiculous. However, it's really a copascetic dance the NEA and the lawmakers of this country both participate in. . .
The idiocy starts when both the State and The Union go hand-in-hand to the Kool Aid, and believe that every population can be taught the same way. The needs, funding, and structure of rural schools is VERY different than for Urban schools. Nowadays, even the needs of a bedroom community school district are completely different. Every teacher knows this, but by having the NEA address each piece of legislatation as a "Yay" or "Nay" action item, it becomes a morass. If teachers want change, they have to spell it out EXPLICITLY using solid research and being pro-active, not waiting for a legislator to whip up a bill.
In my perfect world, there'd be a Teacher's Union that'd function half as the NEA, protecting teacher's working hours and conditions, but also would be something akin to the Bar Association, where we'd promote teaching methods and come out with real publicity about how we'd collectively feel about legislation and governance.
Lastly, before folks go off simply "bashing" the NEA, you have to know how "the sausage gets made." I got a good illustration of this when I went to a State Council meeting. In California, it goes something like this:
1. A principal at a small elementary school is being really ineffective. Pissing off the staff with last-minute changes without justification, more meetings than are necessary, and preventing the union members to meet.
2. Said school happens to be in Los Angeles Unified School District
3. LA Unified is large enough to have a quorum to bring the item to State Council.
4. We're throwing several thousand dollars at LA Unified, and threatening armageddon, because one principal wants to be king, rather than just listen to the staff.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
My suggestions to make public schools better:
1. Figure out which students you're going to teach. If you're not going to teach some percentage of population, then figure out what you're going to do with them.
2. Allow flexibility in governance and funding to allow rural schools, urban schools, and suburban schools to get the money they need.
3. Have standardized tests on the standardized curriculum at the end of the year. Don't pass? Go straight to summer school and retake. Don't pass again. . . get hauled off to remediation.
4. Strict parent penalties for not having the child getting schooled.
5. Strict parent penalties for having the child attending outside of their attendance area w/o proper documentation.
6. Use research-based methods to address deficient ELs.
7. Use research-based methods in instruction and governance.
8. Have separate principals and deans of students. In other words, have a bureaucrat run the school, have an educator run the instruction; maybe even have a third person handle student discipline and counselling issues.
/rant