View Poll Results: Gotta Vent Here.
I see no problems with the way things are going on this board. I shall now resume dragging my knuckles and beating my chest.
12.50%
There is a problem. I would like to see something done or contribute to make this a better board.
87.50%
Voters: 48. You may not vote on this poll
Gotta Vent Here.
12-11-2001, 06:30 PM
#1
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I just read what SirTom was enduring over on the PacNW Thread: https://www.s2ki.com/forums/showthread.php?...?threadid=38043
It's crap that some of the boys on this board have to be @ssholes 24/7. The moderators are useless(This is not directed at you Dave). The fraternity mentality goes all the way to the top. It's very sad, but the writing is already on the wall for this site unless management refocuses or reshuffles. It's not the first or even in the first hundred times that someone has been harassed, reported the thread to a moderator, and the moderators just giggled about it in their forum and left it alone to see who would win under the pious BS that 'they will just have to work it out'. It's like a dogfight to them. They should take the verbiage out of the 'report this post to a moderator' screen about the true reasons...harassment, vulgarity, demeaning, belittling.... and change the text to 'submit this thread to the local frat boys so they can get a good laugh about it and show it to their friends'. Completely useless.
Now before anyone wastes my time telling me that I am no angel and that I have participated in my share of altercations; you are right. I am one with the concept. And that does not make me any better than these "moderators" who sit on their hands when people are ridiculed and belittled for meaningless stuff. So maybe you think I have no right to type this. That's your prerogative. But I am doing it to bring light to something that is very wrong on this board. And even if I personally am wrong for what I have done, this cause is right.
When does it end? When does it get so lawless around here that if you are 'in the club' you can say anything to or about anyone at any cost and get away scot free with all the moderators laughing in chorus with you? Too late. It's been happening for the last few months. People are leaving the board and looking for new options. New options are being built as we speak.
It's sad. Pitiful really. That this good thing we have here at S2ki now has a limited life term, because people are joyriding it into a downward spiral where people of certain opinions, choices, sexes, and races do not feel welcome. They can't contribute the volumes that they have learned in their life experience. They won't fellowship with us or we with them because of the downward trend this board has taken.
If you don't think there is a problem, do a search on 'insensitive'. Or 'woman bashing'. Or 'gay bashing'. If you still don't see a problem, then you are part of it. This message was not for you. It's above you. Back to the locker room with you.
Sorry to tie up this space with my thoughts. Just felt like sharing what's on my mind, and seeing how many of you bear the interest to speak up or vote on this topic.
It's crap that some of the boys on this board have to be @ssholes 24/7. The moderators are useless(This is not directed at you Dave). The fraternity mentality goes all the way to the top. It's very sad, but the writing is already on the wall for this site unless management refocuses or reshuffles. It's not the first or even in the first hundred times that someone has been harassed, reported the thread to a moderator, and the moderators just giggled about it in their forum and left it alone to see who would win under the pious BS that 'they will just have to work it out'. It's like a dogfight to them. They should take the verbiage out of the 'report this post to a moderator' screen about the true reasons...harassment, vulgarity, demeaning, belittling.... and change the text to 'submit this thread to the local frat boys so they can get a good laugh about it and show it to their friends'. Completely useless.
Now before anyone wastes my time telling me that I am no angel and that I have participated in my share of altercations; you are right. I am one with the concept. And that does not make me any better than these "moderators" who sit on their hands when people are ridiculed and belittled for meaningless stuff. So maybe you think I have no right to type this. That's your prerogative. But I am doing it to bring light to something that is very wrong on this board. And even if I personally am wrong for what I have done, this cause is right.
When does it end? When does it get so lawless around here that if you are 'in the club' you can say anything to or about anyone at any cost and get away scot free with all the moderators laughing in chorus with you? Too late. It's been happening for the last few months. People are leaving the board and looking for new options. New options are being built as we speak.
It's sad. Pitiful really. That this good thing we have here at S2ki now has a limited life term, because people are joyriding it into a downward spiral where people of certain opinions, choices, sexes, and races do not feel welcome. They can't contribute the volumes that they have learned in their life experience. They won't fellowship with us or we with them because of the downward trend this board has taken.
If you don't think there is a problem, do a search on 'insensitive'. Or 'woman bashing'. Or 'gay bashing'. If you still don't see a problem, then you are part of it. This message was not for you. It's above you. Back to the locker room with you.
Sorry to tie up this space with my thoughts. Just felt like sharing what's on my mind, and seeing how many of you bear the interest to speak up or vote on this topic.
12-11-2001, 06:54 PM
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Well I have a pretty big mouth and I ain't in the "club". That said, I always try to minimize the times and ways I call someone else an idiot. Just tonight, I erased a couple of paragraphs that didn't add enough to be worth the antagonism.
I do think though, that moderation (which is really enforcement with a warmer name) is a weak method for maintaining community standards. We should all speak up when we don't like something. We shouldn't sit back and quietly be offended and we shouldn't go whining to the post police.
Don't like something, speak up. Depending on moderators will always lead to the clique mentality. They'll have a hard time assassinating you, though, if you don't provide any ammunition.
I do think though, that moderation (which is really enforcement with a warmer name) is a weak method for maintaining community standards. We should all speak up when we don't like something. We shouldn't sit back and quietly be offended and we shouldn't go whining to the post police.
Don't like something, speak up. Depending on moderators will always lead to the clique mentality. They'll have a hard time assassinating you, though, if you don't provide any ammunition.
12-11-2001, 07:49 PM
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I understand what you are saying, but if we are all such 'good wonderful people' why need moderators at all? What is their purpose if we can all just 'straighten up' or 'say something when we are offended'? Who are we saying it to? You could take it outside the board and say 'we all speak up when we are hurt, we can all behave when we really need to.. who needs Police?'.
When people relentlessly attack one another, there is a need for a higher intermediary power to end the conflict and send them back to their respective corners. Here we used to call them moderators. We have moderators because sometimes, just sometimes, we don't see what we are doing and we need a kick in the seat or a ref to step inbetween us.
Would you find it funny if you were being beaten up and the police gathered round and yelled 'fight fight fight'?
When people relentlessly attack one another, there is a need for a higher intermediary power to end the conflict and send them back to their respective corners. Here we used to call them moderators. We have moderators because sometimes, just sometimes, we don't see what we are doing and we need a kick in the seat or a ref to step inbetween us.
Would you find it funny if you were being beaten up and the police gathered round and yelled 'fight fight fight'?
12-11-2001, 08:21 PM
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Well said, Keith. If I may add, IMHO, the problem with the forum is that Honda S2000 is not a unifying theme between all the members at www.s2ki.com . I know it sounds ridiculous, but let's face it... to most members, it's just a car and they are here to meet people and to socialize. Hence, you see so many members becoming groupies at their "regionional" forum. I mean, how many people from ATL forum really ventures out to other forums... and same goes for members in other regional forum. Members have found a niche within the regional "communities" at www.sk2i.com and they do what they have to to fit in that group.
I understand that the sucess of s2ki.com has a lot to do with attracting many members through regional forums, but that creates problems as you have witnessed. No offense, but s2ki.com members need to do more in sharing their zeal for S2000. I think Honda made a big mistake of producing too many "commemorative" S2000... where it became "just a car." Furthermore, I see a lot of "rice" infestations on this site, brining down the real and usual contents of the site.
I apologize if I have not addressed your main concern of moderator issues, but the problem, to me, is not soley due to the moderator issues.
Lastly, in my experience, track (road course, autoX) is where you find real enthusiast... not some web-site. Happy revving, everyone.
I understand that the sucess of s2ki.com has a lot to do with attracting many members through regional forums, but that creates problems as you have witnessed. No offense, but s2ki.com members need to do more in sharing their zeal for S2000. I think Honda made a big mistake of producing too many "commemorative" S2000... where it became "just a car." Furthermore, I see a lot of "rice" infestations on this site, brining down the real and usual contents of the site.
I apologize if I have not addressed your main concern of moderator issues, but the problem, to me, is not soley due to the moderator issues.
Lastly, in my experience, track (road course, autoX) is where you find real enthusiast... not some web-site. Happy revving, everyone.
12-11-2001, 09:35 PM
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Since obviously, who really cares, people "relentlessly attack" for only a few reasons:
1. They like to believe that they have increased their own stature at your expense.
2. They are lonely and seeking attention.
3. They gain some perverse enjoyment by changing the discussion to being about themselves.
4. It makes them feel smarter to make you look stupid.
5. It makes them feel smarter to be able to frustrate you.
See the common thread. Being an ass in a venue like this is all about getting attention and recognition. If we don't give it (perhaps by ignoring, perhaps by disrespecting, perhaps by not biting) the ass goes elsewhere. We feed the need or we don't. No "moderator" needed.
Take the Si guy (whose lengthy list of responses I haven't read.) What if he posted and no one answered. Instead, we collectively chose to ensure that he and people like him will be back. You do the math.
As to your police argument, here's are two ways to think about it. Society exists because:
1. Police officers keep all of us civilized. They are truly the line between chaos and order.
2. People are basically decent. We behave and behave cooperatively because of our values and desire to be part of -- and of benefit to -- a group. Our values keep us civilized.
In the real world with your example, some decent citizen would probably intervene long before the police showed up.
Just one man's opinion.
1. They like to believe that they have increased their own stature at your expense.
2. They are lonely and seeking attention.
3. They gain some perverse enjoyment by changing the discussion to being about themselves.
4. It makes them feel smarter to make you look stupid.
5. It makes them feel smarter to be able to frustrate you.
See the common thread. Being an ass in a venue like this is all about getting attention and recognition. If we don't give it (perhaps by ignoring, perhaps by disrespecting, perhaps by not biting) the ass goes elsewhere. We feed the need or we don't. No "moderator" needed.
Take the Si guy (whose lengthy list of responses I haven't read.) What if he posted and no one answered. Instead, we collectively chose to ensure that he and people like him will be back. You do the math.
As to your police argument, here's are two ways to think about it. Society exists because:
1. Police officers keep all of us civilized. They are truly the line between chaos and order.
2. People are basically decent. We behave and behave cooperatively because of our values and desire to be part of -- and of benefit to -- a group. Our values keep us civilized.
In the real world with your example, some decent citizen would probably intervene long before the police showed up.
Just one man's opinion.
12-12-2001, 06:35 AM
#6
Of course name calling is not the answer. If I moderated that forum I'd probably delete/edit a few of those posts but only if somebody complained which of course Tom did. I'm all for making the board fun and informative not a knock down drag out like some other boards. These are all public forums and anyone the posts anything seriously negative about somebody else should be prepared to have their post deleted.
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12-12-2001, 09:51 AM
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I also got too carried away in my responses and I apologize for that to those who shouldn't have been subjected to reading those posts. However, I still say I had my reasons, such behaviour by members of a community irks me and I wanted to stand up for myself and my fellow Atlanta members; I apologize if I didn't do it in the best way. I don't have enough time to respond now due to my final exams, but I would like to say I've seen too much of this behaviour recently.
Also, if I have been receiving terribly offensive and vulgar PMs from unnamed members, (how) can I report it?
Also, if I have been receiving terribly offensive and vulgar PMs from unnamed members, (how) can I report it?
12-12-2001, 10:02 AM
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There have been a few instances of threads being locked or deleted for content only to spark half a dozen or more threads about the "oppressive morality police". Further, half of those subsequent threads are then locked or deleted for their content. It is a never ending and unwinnable battle to try and get everyone to "just get along".
12-12-2001, 10:04 AM
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just wanted to say I agree with Mr. Keith's (who ALSO has a silver S 
) post 110% and things can easily be fixed by having more alert and stringent moderators!
I participate on bimmer.org (where most people DON'T have the same car) and almost never have to see fighting and members intentionally frustrating others.
I'm sure Loki can vouch for this.
) post 110% and things can easily be fixed by having more alert and stringent moderators!I participate on bimmer.org (where most people DON'T have the same car) and almost never have to see fighting and members intentionally frustrating others.
I'm sure Loki can vouch for this.