Turbo nightmare? stil...?
09-20-2003, 12:35 AM
#1
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Thread Starter
Turbo nightmare? stil...?
My friend just got his s supercharged by vortech. Damn the car is pretty fast right now. He also adviced me to go with a SC especially vortech but for some reason something is just pushing me to turbo the car. I just did the search and read some of the horror stories before people achieved nice results.
But finally noone asked this question. Does it really worth it?
and
If I would just go buy an ultimate racing kit and get it professionally installed, do I still need to get it tuned? As much as I am told the SC is easier to install and maintain and its proven stable. Turbo basically not... or it was not like before and now newly updated(are there any?) turbo systems eliminate most of the problems that the first turbo users had to encounter with. Turbo installation is now easier,safer on the engine, and more reliable than it was before. Now can anyone tell me what I have wrote up there (my hopes) is true or not?
But finally noone asked this question. Does it really worth it?
and
If I would just go buy an ultimate racing kit and get it professionally installed, do I still need to get it tuned? As much as I am told the SC is easier to install and maintain and its proven stable. Turbo basically not... or it was not like before and now newly updated(are there any?) turbo systems eliminate most of the problems that the first turbo users had to encounter with. Turbo installation is now easier,safer on the engine, and more reliable than it was before. Now can anyone tell me what I have wrote up there (my hopes) is true or not?
09-20-2003, 03:25 AM
#2
Just remember you have to pass smog in California and no turbo is approved by CARB. This means you will have to pull it to smog your S and you take a chance of getting cited for non-compliance if the cops make you pop your hood.
09-20-2003, 07:42 AM
#3
I may be off base here and I certainly cannot speak with any authority on the "ins and outs" of daily living with a turbo S2000 but here's my take on it:
Your statement about turbos in general are quite true. Where it "might" lack some validity is when these are applied to the S2000. A few turbo S owners have posted that their setup has been trouble free, "bulletproof" and "runs great". This may be true for some but I'm of the opinion that it is not for all. Having communicated via PM with one such owner who stated that his setup is "great", when questioned, he did admit that the car has an idle condition that needed to be worked out and that there are still little "lumps" and "bumps" at some points along the rpm band. (BTW, this owner has his turbo kit up for sale - wonder why?) Of course, these are insignificant when you consider the overall power delivery BUT, in my opinion these are SIGNIFICANT when it comes to day to day "driveability". The usual comments we see goes something like this: "The car runs great, just need to tune it a bit more to smooth out the idle and some isolated peaks and valleys". Sorry, but to me, this is NOT "great". From what I can tell, this tuning seems to be ongoing. It just keeps going and going and going ....................................
Even after Ultimate Racing sold many of these kits, it was months later that finally announce that their car was finally tuned properly (except those little glitches in this and that). And this was with all their resources at their disposal. What about all those who purchased the kit and had to do it on their own?
NO, you cannot just buy this kit (from anybody), bolt it on and go. You WILL be tuning and tuning and tuning..................................... The big question is: Will you ever arrive at a point when you simply say to yourself - "Well, I guess this is about as good as it will ever get"? Then call it a day?
Is it that important to you to be able to say, "I'VE GOT A TURBO IN IT!" If it is, then do it! Oh, BTW, if you search this site, there are a few turbo kits for sale.
Sure, there are a few S/C's for sale too but these are a MUCH smaller percentage of the overall numbers of them out there. You kinda gotta ask why.
Your statement about turbos in general are quite true. Where it "might" lack some validity is when these are applied to the S2000. A few turbo S owners have posted that their setup has been trouble free, "bulletproof" and "runs great". This may be true for some but I'm of the opinion that it is not for all. Having communicated via PM with one such owner who stated that his setup is "great", when questioned, he did admit that the car has an idle condition that needed to be worked out and that there are still little "lumps" and "bumps" at some points along the rpm band. (BTW, this owner has his turbo kit up for sale - wonder why?) Of course, these are insignificant when you consider the overall power delivery BUT, in my opinion these are SIGNIFICANT when it comes to day to day "driveability". The usual comments we see goes something like this: "The car runs great, just need to tune it a bit more to smooth out the idle and some isolated peaks and valleys". Sorry, but to me, this is NOT "great". From what I can tell, this tuning seems to be ongoing. It just keeps going and going and going ....................................
Even after Ultimate Racing sold many of these kits, it was months later that finally announce that their car was finally tuned properly (except those little glitches in this and that). And this was with all their resources at their disposal. What about all those who purchased the kit and had to do it on their own?
NO, you cannot just buy this kit (from anybody), bolt it on and go. You WILL be tuning and tuning and tuning..................................... The big question is: Will you ever arrive at a point when you simply say to yourself - "Well, I guess this is about as good as it will ever get"? Then call it a day?
Is it that important to you to be able to say, "I'VE GOT A TURBO IN IT!" If it is, then do it! Oh, BTW, if you search this site, there are a few turbo kits for sale.
Sure, there are a few S/C's for sale too but these are a MUCH smaller percentage of the overall numbers of them out there. You kinda gotta ask why.
09-20-2003, 09:26 AM
#4
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Thread Starter
Hey xviper thanks for the nice reply. I was thinking the same way that you are but i had hope that someone would come out and say go ahead man its ok now you can do it. I really dont want to deal with a lot of problems because well I dont have extra money for a new block or internals, also s is my daily driver i cant let it stay in the shop all the time. I need it to go to work, maybe come back from work, once in a while i gotta get some milk and bread ... 
. Turbo i guess sounds nice just because its a turbo and there are not too many of them around. Well i would like couple more opinions but i guess i am gonna go with the SC too. Is it true about the comptech puttin about 30 more rwh with the aftercooler? My friends car dynoed 170 stock and 270 with the vortech SC on a Mustang dyno. I belive it would be 200-300 on dynojet.
. Turbo i guess sounds nice just because its a turbo and there are not too many of them around. Well i would like couple more opinions but i guess i am gonna go with the SC too. Is it true about the comptech puttin about 30 more rwh with the aftercooler? My friends car dynoed 170 stock and 270 with the vortech SC on a Mustang dyno. I belive it would be 200-300 on dynojet.
09-20-2003, 09:34 AM
#5
No matter which turbo you get, a properly tuned EMS is the only way to solve driveability and safety issues. As Giles says in this thread, you'll just have to budget for the EMS and tuning if you want to be happy.
09-20-2003, 09:46 AM
#6
I have the UR turbo kit in my car now and it's running perfect as of now. Yes, you will need tuning and tuning and tuning.......but after that you will have the Ultimate S2000 Turbo got more torque and sound so niceee as well......pssssh!! 
I did encounted many problems b4 but with UR people stand by my side I was able to walk through it. Give them a call and ask for Darryl......he's da man!
Turbo got more torque and sound so niceee as well......pssssh!! I did encounted many problems b4 but with UR people stand by my side I was able to walk through it. Give them a call and ask for Darryl......he's da man!
09-20-2003, 10:46 AM
#7
Just a note here. I run a vortech with vortechs kit. my car runs fine everyday with no problems. The secret seems to be a 12 to 1 fuel ratio. not 13.5 or somewhere up there. i note that cbender with his new turbo is saying the same thing. I'd also note he's not running his boost levels any higher than a supercharger.
I keep considering additional changes but again, agreeing with cbender 300hp to the rear is about the limit of the car's engineering envelope without starting to make major motor and drivetrain modifications. At least it seems to be that way if you want reliability as well as enhanced performance.
There's another S2000 at liberty performance getting a vortech. We'll be on the dyno on saturday provided the other s2kis done. His setup is the same as mine but with larger injectors and an aem. It will be interesting watching them tune it. Maybe I'll change my mind if there's enough difference between where I am and 300 hp
From what I've read on here, the rule of thumb on this board seems to be. "350whp today!!!" then "Parting our my car" tomorrow. I like my vortech but i'm sure comptechs works well too...get the polished one, they look really good.
fltsfshr
I keep considering additional changes but again, agreeing with cbender 300hp to the rear is about the limit of the car's engineering envelope without starting to make major motor and drivetrain modifications. At least it seems to be that way if you want reliability as well as enhanced performance.
There's another S2000 at liberty performance getting a vortech. We'll be on the dyno on saturday provided the other s2kis done. His setup is the same as mine but with larger injectors and an aem. It will be interesting watching them tune it. Maybe I'll change my mind if there's enough difference between where I am and 300 hp
From what I've read on here, the rule of thumb on this board seems to be. "350whp today!!!" then "Parting our my car" tomorrow. I like my vortech but i'm sure comptechs works well too...get the polished one, they look really good.
fltsfshr
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09-21-2003, 12:29 AM
#8
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Thread Starter
Yeah Ill call UR before ill do anything but this tuning thing is just getting me a little scared. About the sound of the turbo yeah its very very nice its so nice even though its cheaper to go with vortech for same power and more reliability and easier setup, still turbo blurs my decision. Goddamn heavy pshshss sound, and having a "Turbo S2000". If they wouldent bug me i would already start with the supercharger project.
About 300 hp limit i do definatly agree. Even with 300 hp it feels like you are ptting too much stress on the clutch, tranny and differential. My friend was driving his hard for aout 6000 miles and now he put the SC on it, i think he put like 300 miles on the car with the SC now his clutch is slipping sometimes gears grind on fast shifting. It looks like its gonna get ugly even with 300 rhp.
About 300 hp limit i do definatly agree. Even with 300 hp it feels like you are ptting too much stress on the clutch, tranny and differential. My friend was driving his hard for aout 6000 miles and now he put the SC on it, i think he put like 300 miles on the car with the SC now his clutch is slipping sometimes gears grind on fast shifting. It looks like its gonna get ugly even with 300 rhp.
09-21-2003, 10:12 AM
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by xviper
I may be off base here and I certainly cannot speak with any authority on the "ins and outs" of daily living with a turbo S2000 but here's my take on it:
Your statement about turbos in general are quite true.
I may be off base here and I certainly cannot speak with any authority on the "ins and outs" of daily living with a turbo S2000 but here's my take on it:
Your statement about turbos in general are quite true.
09-21-2003, 10:16 AM
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by S2KFI
Yeah Ill call UR before ill do anything but this tuning thing is just getting me a little scared. About the sound of the turbo yeah its very very nice its so nice even though its cheaper to go with vortech for same power and more reliability and easier setup, still turbo blurs my decision. Goddamn heavy pshshss sound,
Yeah Ill call UR before ill do anything but this tuning thing is just getting me a little scared. About the sound of the turbo yeah its very very nice its so nice even though its cheaper to go with vortech for same power and more reliability and easier setup, still turbo blurs my decision. Goddamn heavy pshshss sound,