cbender

TMS, no disrespect intended, but I think you are simplifying the issue to the point of missing it completely. It's not really the injectors that are the problem -- although I agree that the stock injectors in combo with a rising rate FMU is a poor solution, at BEST -- but that the stock ECU cannot be successfully fooled into correctly managing fuel delivery. Hence, the absolute (in my opinion) need for a stand-alone enginge management system. Hence, the cost, hassle, and trouble of getting the tuning right. After much investigation, I can tell you that 550 injectors with a 1:1 fuel pressure regulator are about right for running 7-8psi of boost on the stock internals. Any bigger, and you're buying more capacity than you need (and there are issues with regard to tuning monster injectors). Any smaller, and you'll need a rising rate FMU, which I think is a Bad Idea. My two cents...

CB

fperra

[QUOTE]Originally posted by cbender
TMS, no disrespect intended, but I think you are simplifying the issue to the point of missing it completely.

Zonie

Hope ya'lla ren't TOTALLY bored with this yet, but I have a question...

From what I'm reading, once tuned the turbo will produce better mid-range gains and the SC only REALLY gives a lot at top-end.

Here's my SPECIFIC question - how big of an issue is heatsoak on a turbo? I ask because I live in one of the hottest, driest places on EARTH and was wondering if an intercooled+aftercooled SC would actually give better gains in the desert heat.

Any thoughts?

tms02

Cbender, No disrepect taken. Agreed! Engine management is the best way to go!!!

I think we have answered part of the oringinal question. Turbo charging has a fuel mapping issue, and thus takes tuning to solve the problem. Totally solvable, but cost money.

So, does anyone have a less costly solution that AEM and tuning? One that might reduce performance, but increase the change in your wallet. I think this was one of the goals of the original question. Missing Link???

The equation looks something like
$4500 kit
$1000 labor install
$1500 AEM
$ ???? tuning

The ??? and $1500 causes the questions to be posted on the board.

PS> Cbender, Thanks again for you input. I knew that I was over simplying the issue. It is guys like you that we all learn from!

Cheers!

cbender

I don't have my files available (I just relocated to the west coast) and I've forgotten what it all cost, but you can/should add:

Wideband O2 sensor
Upgraded clutch plus installation
Fuel pressure regulator
Fuel pressure gauge for the fuel rail
Injectors
Gauges
Upgraded exhaust pipe and muffle

And, if you're conservative (as I am), upgraded oil jet bolts, Mugen cooling mods, etc.

Good luck,
CB

PS: TMS, you're most welcome, and thanks for taking my comments in good stride. It's easy to step on toes (without intending to) in these matters. I thought your input was helpful, and hopefully S2KFI will get something out of all this. Speaking of which, S2K, you shoud do a search for ChrisD and read his note about upgrading a turbo kit to the EMS.

Steve@Evolution

nm

s2ksimon

had a '93 mr2 turbo.. too much time in the shop tuning.. tuning.. too many melted bearings.. learned my lesson and got me an s2000

swtazn97

I just looked at ultimate-racing's site and so it say's under "latest and final tune..." Can I just buy their kit and slap it on, and then it'll run fine as it should as daily driven car? Or is it a lot more complicated than that, does it still have to be re-tuned, even when it's already "tuned?"

xviper

[QUOTE]Originally posted by swtazn97
I just looked at ultimate-racing's site and so it say's under "latest and final tune..." Can I just buy their kit and slap it on, and then it'll run fine as it should as daily driven car?

swtazn97

Okay, read it. That just drew my turbo idea more towards the drain. =*( So, I guess theres more tuning involved sheesh. Thanks for the head up xviper, i would have probably done the same too.