sahtt

You may have learnd from your mistakes. But you have a long, long way to go.

Most people are broke or in deep debt, even those people you see driving or owning fairly nice things. Being a dumbass when everyone else is being a dumbass is still being a dumbass.

Debt is when you owe an institution or individual something of monatery value, whether that's income or something else. Because of our financial structure and other things out of our control, debt for a mortgage and or college may be unavoidable to a certain extent. Even those you must be very careful about.

And frankly, no, property is not a good all around investment unless you know what you are doing. Almost every peice of property in the U.S., and in many places in Europe to Asia is sinking in value because of people giving loans to people who cannot afford them.

Notice I said afford, not 'get'. Just because you can 'get' an s2000 doesn't mean you can 'afford' an s2000.

If you want to have fun when you are young and drive cars that will financially hurt you in the future that's 100% your business. I totally see the logic depending on what you get your utility from. But let's not disguise it as remotely intelligent fiscally or excusable for the wrong reasons.

chroot

God, you're killing me.

First, you need to understand that banks are against you. Whatever is good for the bank is bad for you. The bank will give anyone a loan who they think will pay them back, regardless of the incredible damage it will do to the customer's financial situation. They don't care -- they want customers who can barely afford the minimum monthly payment, because that maximizes their profits.

When a bank extends high-interest 100% financing to a person with minimal credit, the bank is not doing that person a favor. The bank is bending that person over and giving it to them animal-style. You don't realize it, because someone smiled real big, gave you a set of keys, and shook your hand, but you just got screwed.

And listen, get this through your inexperienced little head: CAR-LOAN DEBT IS DEBT, JUST LIKE CREDIT CARD DEBT. THERE IS NO DIFFERENCE. You're trying really hard to rationalize this by somehow claiming that car loans aren't "real" debt, but that's STUPID.

If you cannot afford a Nintendo without using a credit card, you cannot afford a Nintendo. If you cannot afford a car without using 100% financing, you cannot afford the car. Period.

"I know how to take care of my money." What money? You don't have any money! You have no income, continually mooch off your parents, and have some $30k worth of debt. You are a financial failure. Accept it now or accept it later; it's your choice.

And no, buying a house when you can't even afford a car is a terrible, terrible, terrible idea. What're you going to do when the plumbing screws up and you have to pay a $6k repair bill? I'm sorry, but you're imagining your financial situation to be light-years ahead of where it really is!

- Warren

HGL1668

I take all your advise to an extend, and thanks. I agree 99% of what you guys are saying. I am still young and you guys have more experience. But for you to call me a financial failure is just crossing it. You don't even know me. And let me guess, you are going to say, "ya, I dont know you and still I know you are a financial failure, blah, blah."

Well, ya I have a debt right now, but can I afford it? Its all depends on how you look at it. To me, I can afford it, I am lucky to have the opportunity to afford it. I have no stress on payments. I still buy my organic food and shop. I can "afford" the S2000.

But to you guys, you might not think that because you think that everything has to be paid in full, in order for the thing to be called affordable. All I have in debt right now is the car, and I can pay every month without a sweat. I have way less things to worry about than you guys. I only need to study, but you might already have a family to take care of, so maybe thats why you think I can't afford it? I don't know.

BTW, I bought the car myself under my name only. No help by parents, at least for the car. And ya, to do that, I need to show them my pay stub. "What money?"

I love these conversations, lets here them.

Hugo-

HGL1668

Really...

I just want to make the point that enjoy life to the point where you can afford it and don't skimp on that because you will regret it when your mid-life crisis starts kicking in. Thats what I think.

mbunse

I could get an s2k if I wanted too, I could pay the payments, but it would be too big of a percentage of my income right now. I'm looking at cheap daily driver so I can get through college easily. I'm going to put about half of the price of a ~$7k car down to minimize the interest. Overpay the payments and get it paid off by summer or early into it. Then save to pay for college expenses/student loans. Thanks for the advice guys.

See: The Millionaire Next Door - Thomas J. Stanley and William D. Danko

HGL1668

yes, since its too big of a percentage of you income right now, then you cannot afford it. But if I were in your shoes, before my CC debt, I would have bought that s2k already. Since I experienced it, I don't do it anymore.

I know you, (mbunse), are smart enough to not take my advise, because don't. I was just sharing my take on these financial stuff.

Good Luck and have fun!

hockey_fan59

i am 20 and had my s2000 when i was 19. Especially with the lower price of s2ks nowadays, it is affordable for many people with a FT job. However. it takes a huge chunk of your income. my advice: if you are young and looking for thrill and a way to get around, buy a bike.

i could totally afford my s2000, but after learning how to ride, i have never looked back.

plus that and living in canada, i could only drive the s2k 5 months/12

chroot

[QUOTE=HGL1668,Oct 16 2007, 06:19 PM] I take all your advise to an extend, and thanks.

HGL1668

You hit all the points that I was trying to make.

It is unfortunate that you were unemployed for a while, but thats unpredictable. Life is unpredictable. Even if you have fortune saved up, you are never safe.

It is also unfortunate that you think the S2000 is a waste because all those fun you had did not add up to 35k+ to you. It was not the S2000 that forced you into the horrible situation. It was the unemployment.

And, also this is one reason why I like to play while I am young. I am still young and can fix things easier if anything goes wrong. I will end up like you and invest most of the money I earned instead of a toy. I know I will not have much time to do this stuff after college.

But it was nice to hear your past experience

Hugo-

moogleii

[QUOTE]Don't tell everyone your financial history if you don't want it to be judged. Sorry, but you pretty much asked for it.

I was also 20 when I purchased my S2000. I was fresh out of college, and had accepted my first "real" job for what seemed like an absolute fortune: $60k/year. I hadn't even received my first paycheck, yet was already itching to spend my entire first year's salary (after taxes) on a flashy new car, 100% financed, of course. They shook my hand and gave me a set of keys. I bought helmets and took it to track days. I drove it up and down mountains and had fun.

Things went more or less okay for the next couple of years, but eventually I got laid off. That three-month period of unemployment forced me to put many thousands of dollars on credit cards, and caused a ripple effect in my personal finances that took me several years to overcome. I began to have trouble with bills, month after month, and began to resent the $650 car payment, since it was keeping me from paying off the credit cards, in a never-ending debt trap. There were a few months when I could not come up with the money, and missed payments. I repeatedly got charged $40 for over-limit fees, overdraft fees, late fees, you name it. I had a couple of really rough weeks when I had to use paycheck-advance services. I remember running out into the driveway a few times late at night, worried that the truck noises I heard from the road were a tow truck coming to repossess it. I ended up wearing tires down to the steel bands because I could not afford to replace them.

Was I able to "afford" the car?

Sure, I mostly paid all the payments on time. I wasn't forced to sell it (which would have meant incurring a huge loss on a relatively new car). According to the logic of many people, that meant I was able to afford it.

On the other hand, I didn't save anything for years. I was so broke that I didn't even take advantage of my company's 401k matching program. I wasted enormous amounts of money on finance charges on credit cards because I had no other choices. (Unlike you, asking my family to bail me out of my bad decisions was not an option.)

Fast forward seven years. The car's old. I stopped caring about it long ago. It's a car, much like any other car, but a little faster and prettier. I mostly just drive it back and forth to work. It's been paid off for several years, along with all those credit cards. Suddenly, like magic, I've saved up a year's salary and have tens of thousands of dollars to invest. I never have to worry about money, and, as long as I make wise decisions in the future, my financial situation will likely continue to improve.

The bottom line: purchasing the S2000 (versus some other more reasonable car) was one of the biggest financial blunders I've ever made. My current salary puts me in the top 1% of the country -- I'm wealthy by many peoples' standards -- yet I still feel like the S2000 was a waste.