Brake bleeding
04-01-2012, 06:20 PM
#1
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Brake bleeding
So I bought a quart of Super blue ATE dot 4 brake fluid a few weeks ago. I've been meaning to bleed the system before the first autocross of the season. Partly because the pedal has been feeling a bit soft, and the fluid is now 12 years old I figured it ought to be changed.
I followed this detailed post (https://www.s2ki.com/s2000/topic/482...rake-bleeding/) pretty exactly. Yet after 4 hours of preperation, jacking the car up, removing wheels and bleeding etc the brake pedal feels just as, if not softer than before. This really pissed me off.
If anyone has any advice on how to fix this, I'd rather not gravity bleed again because it took forever. Also, how much might it cost to have a reputable shop bleed the system?
thanks
I followed this detailed post (https://www.s2ki.com/s2000/topic/482...rake-bleeding/) pretty exactly. Yet after 4 hours of preperation, jacking the car up, removing wheels and bleeding etc the brake pedal feels just as, if not softer than before. This really pissed me off.
If anyone has any advice on how to fix this, I'd rather not gravity bleed again because it took forever. Also, how much might it cost to have a reputable shop bleed the system?
thanks
04-02-2012, 04:15 AM
#2
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I use the Billman gravity bleed and don't necessarily get a hard pedal, but the brakes stop just as they always have. Is your braking performance bad?
Funny you said it took a while to gravity bleed. That seems to be the case for some people, others not. It never takes me more than 15 minutes per wheel, then again I don't sit and watch. I let it drip and do other chores.
-Mike
Funny you said it took a while to gravity bleed. That seems to be the case for some people, others not. It never takes me more than 15 minutes per wheel, then again I don't sit and watch. I let it drip and do other chores.
-Mike
04-02-2012, 05:34 AM
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I installed Russell Speed Bleeders on my calipers. Makes for 1 person job with no chance of air getting into the system. These bleeders have a checkvalve so when you stop pumping, they closeoff automaticlly. I've used them in my street and race cars for years with no problems.
04-02-2012, 07:20 AM
#4
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I installed Russell Speed Bleeders on my calipers. Makes for 1 person job with no chance of air getting into the system. These bleeders have a checkvalve so when you stop pumping, they closeoff automaticlly. I've used them in my street and race cars for years with no problems.
Wondering if there might be a bigger issue. Might want to have another S2000 owner take her for a spin and see if pedal feel is different from theirs or vice versa.
04-02-2012, 07:53 AM
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I installed Russell Speed Bleeders on my calipers. Makes for 1 person job with no chance of air getting into the system. These bleeders have a checkvalve so when you stop pumping, they closeoff automaticlly. I've used them in my street and race cars for years with no problems.
04-02-2012, 08:03 AM
#6
I'm old school. Proper bleeding of brakes requires a girlfriend or a wife.
If your brakes are soft, my first suspicion is that you have air in the lines. My second suspicion is that maybe your brake hoses at the wheel are old and decrepit and stretching when they should be firm. After that I would suspect a hydraulic system rebuild may be in order (but that's based on other cars, not the S2000).
I do it as follows:
If you have changed out your brake pads, pump the brakes several times to get the pads properly set before bleeding.
1) With a clear plastic tube, say about 1/4 inch and about 4 feet long (any hardware store), I siphon off the fluid in the master cylinder to a container on the ground. I just do that with mouth suction, being carefull not to suck in any brake fluid. (That's why you use a clear plastic tube.) Once it gets started, it will keep draining because the bottom of the tube is way lower than the master cyliner container.
Be very careful not to get brake fluid on any paint.
2) Then I fill master cylinder with new fluid. Make sure you do not shake up the container for a few days prior.
3) Remove appropriate wheel. Then wife in car. Pump a couple of times. I think it's a 10 mm wrench, possible 12mm. Same 1/4" tube about 1 1/2 feet long: Tube on brake bleeder valve. Other end in a jar with a little fluid covering the bottom of the tube.
Wife ordered to "pump and hold". Open bleeder valve just a crack to allow fluid to flow until pedal hits floor. Wife so indicates, but does not lift. Close bleeder valve. Now she can lift. Repeat several times until you have about 3 ounces of fluid removed and no air bubbles.
To keep air from getting in at the bleeder valve / caliper interface when you crack open the bleeder valve, I sometimes squit a little oil or put a daub of grease there. But if you just crack it open slightly, you should be OK with the S.
4) Refill master cylinder each time.
5) Repeat steps 3 and 4 for each wheel. Try not to drain off much more than 3 or 4 ounces of fluid each time.
6) Bleed in following order: LF, RF, RR, LR.
Good luck finding a girlfriend or wife.
If your brakes are soft, my first suspicion is that you have air in the lines. My second suspicion is that maybe your brake hoses at the wheel are old and decrepit and stretching when they should be firm. After that I would suspect a hydraulic system rebuild may be in order (but that's based on other cars, not the S2000).
I do it as follows:
If you have changed out your brake pads, pump the brakes several times to get the pads properly set before bleeding.
1) With a clear plastic tube, say about 1/4 inch and about 4 feet long (any hardware store), I siphon off the fluid in the master cylinder to a container on the ground. I just do that with mouth suction, being carefull not to suck in any brake fluid. (That's why you use a clear plastic tube.) Once it gets started, it will keep draining because the bottom of the tube is way lower than the master cyliner container.
Be very careful not to get brake fluid on any paint.
2) Then I fill master cylinder with new fluid. Make sure you do not shake up the container for a few days prior.
3) Remove appropriate wheel. Then wife in car. Pump a couple of times. I think it's a 10 mm wrench, possible 12mm. Same 1/4" tube about 1 1/2 feet long: Tube on brake bleeder valve. Other end in a jar with a little fluid covering the bottom of the tube.
Wife ordered to "pump and hold". Open bleeder valve just a crack to allow fluid to flow until pedal hits floor. Wife so indicates, but does not lift. Close bleeder valve. Now she can lift. Repeat several times until you have about 3 ounces of fluid removed and no air bubbles.
To keep air from getting in at the bleeder valve / caliper interface when you crack open the bleeder valve, I sometimes squit a little oil or put a daub of grease there. But if you just crack it open slightly, you should be OK with the S.
4) Refill master cylinder each time.
5) Repeat steps 3 and 4 for each wheel. Try not to drain off much more than 3 or 4 ounces of fluid each time.
6) Bleed in following order: LF, RF, RR, LR.
Good luck finding a girlfriend or wife.
04-02-2012, 08:09 AM
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I'm old school. Proper bleeding of brakes requires a girlfriend or a wife.
If your brakes are soft, my first suspicion is that you have air in the lines. My second suspicion is that maybe your brake hoses at the wheel are old and decrepit and stretching when they should be firm. After that I would suspect a hydraulic system rebuild may be in order (but that's based on other cars, not the S2000).
I do it as follows:
If you have changed out your brake pads, pump the brakes several times to get the pads properly set before bleeding.
1) With a clear plastic tube, say about 1/4 inch and about 4 feet long (any hardware store), I siphon off the fluid in the master cylinder to a container on the ground. I just do that with mouth suction, being carefull not to suck in any brake fluid. (That's why you use a clear plastic tube.) Once it gets started, it will keep draining because the bottom of the tube is way lower than the master cyliner container.
Be very careful not to get brake fluid on any paint.
2) Then I fill master cylinder with new fluid. Make sure you do not shake up the container for a few days prior.
3) Remove appropriate wheel. Then wife in car. Pump a couple of times. I think it's a 10 mm wrench, possible 12mm. Same 1/4" tube about 1 1/2 feet long: Tube on brake bleeder valve. Other end in a jar with a little fluid covering the bottom of the tube. Wife ordered to "pump and hold". Open bleeder valve until pedal hits floor. Wife so indicates, but does not lift. Close bleeder valve. Now she can lift. Repeat several times until you have about 3 ounces of fluid removed and no air bubbles.
4) Refill master cylinder each time.
5) Repeat steps 3 and 4 for each wheel. Try not to drain off much more than 3 or 4 ounces of fluid each time.
6) Bleed in following order: LF, RF, RR, LR.
Good luck.
If your brakes are soft, my first suspicion is that you have air in the lines. My second suspicion is that maybe your brake hoses at the wheel are old and decrepit and stretching when they should be firm. After that I would suspect a hydraulic system rebuild may be in order (but that's based on other cars, not the S2000).
I do it as follows:
If you have changed out your brake pads, pump the brakes several times to get the pads properly set before bleeding.
1) With a clear plastic tube, say about 1/4 inch and about 4 feet long (any hardware store), I siphon off the fluid in the master cylinder to a container on the ground. I just do that with mouth suction, being carefull not to suck in any brake fluid. (That's why you use a clear plastic tube.) Once it gets started, it will keep draining because the bottom of the tube is way lower than the master cyliner container.
Be very careful not to get brake fluid on any paint.
2) Then I fill master cylinder with new fluid. Make sure you do not shake up the container for a few days prior.
3) Remove appropriate wheel. Then wife in car. Pump a couple of times. I think it's a 10 mm wrench, possible 12mm. Same 1/4" tube about 1 1/2 feet long: Tube on brake bleeder valve. Other end in a jar with a little fluid covering the bottom of the tube. Wife ordered to "pump and hold". Open bleeder valve until pedal hits floor. Wife so indicates, but does not lift. Close bleeder valve. Now she can lift. Repeat several times until you have about 3 ounces of fluid removed and no air bubbles.
4) Refill master cylinder each time.
5) Repeat steps 3 and 4 for each wheel. Try not to drain off much more than 3 or 4 ounces of fluid each time.
6) Bleed in following order: LF, RF, RR, LR.
Good luck.
now this is how I remember bleeding brakes in SAE and on my friends car, but there were a lot of people praising gravity bleeding so I thought I'd try that. Is there any way I can be certain that the air is in the line somewhere and not in the master cylinder
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04-02-2012, 08:40 AM
#8
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That's how my Dad taught me to bleed brakes, and it seems like it's the classic fail-safe way. I personally wouldn't "gravity bleed" a car with ABS, because I've heard of people getting air in the lines, and then having to get a diagnostic computer to cycle the ABS valves in order to get all the air out of it.
I've also heard lots of good stories about speed bleeders, so I might get a set of those. Easier than getting the wife to learn to do it properly. All my car guy buddies live 30+ minutes away.
I've also heard lots of good stories about speed bleeders, so I might get a set of those. Easier than getting the wife to learn to do it properly. All my car guy buddies live 30+ minutes away.
04-02-2012, 01:26 PM
#9
Community Organizer
With SpeedBleeders I even used my iPhone and laptop to video chatt between the 2. I watched for air bubbles and color change blue to amber.(worked damn good too) I was proud of myself except when the phone fell over and I almost ruined my drawers thinking I might break my phone.
