I think we should withhold the American dollars from any country that fails to cooperate. Couple of months without all our millions and they'll cough up the dissidents and beg for assistance.
Or maybe we should just stop pumping our money to other countries for one year and use it to increase our military.
I'm worried about all the American citizens who happen to be the wrong color and become victims of racial profiling by the lesser intelligent.

 

The Taliban has offered to turn over Osama if we can "prove" that he planned the attacks. Here is Stratfor.com's analysis regarding the act of war vs. criminal justice approaches:

The U.S. government is currently involved in a wrenching redefinition of how to respond to the Sept. 11 attacks on the United States.

The standard U.S. response to such attacks has been to criminalize them. The actions are deemed violations of U.S. law, and the intention of the government is to treat them as one would any other crime -- to identify the criminals and bring them to justice. Ideally, as in the case of the African embassy bombings, this would mean bringing them to trial. In other cases, it would mean staging air attacks on the bases of those responsible.

There are two defects in this strategy. First, it imposes rules of evidence that are entirely impractical under the circumstances. The nature of the action makes it impossible to identify particular perpetrators or conspirators as guilty "beyond a reasonable doubt." Rules of evidence assume investigatory powers like subpoenas and grand juries. Although that is possible in some cases, it frequently leaves the majority of decision-makers untouched.

Second, this approach essentially falsifies reality. Consider Pearl Harbor. Had the United States attempted to criminalize the attack there, it would have focused on hunting down those who carried out the bombing and those who ordered it while leaving other "innocent" Japanese unharmed. The actor at Pearl Harbor was the corporate entity of Japan. Individual responsibility was not at issue -- at least until after the war. What was at issue was that the Japanese Empire had committed an act of war against the United States.

Treating Pearl Harbor as a matter of criminal justice would have been insane. It is equally inappropriate for the Sept. 11 attacks.

 

Desert Wind,

Thansk for your comments. Fear not, I do not support any bombers. I, too, have family friends working in Saudi Arabia. I hope you and your family will be safe and sound, regardless of how the U.S. decides to handle things. As I said at the top of my post, I am generally pacifist, but I also recognize the times when pacifism is the incorrect response. I am severely agonized by all of these events -- not just the terrorism, but the stupid kids shooting at mosques, and at the fear held by the Muslims I call friends. I hate the fact that I have been forced to have a desire to see people (these terrorist groups) dead.

Just this morning, my girlfriend, who works near DC, had a very shy Arabian-American man, probably early twenties, come into her office to ask about an unrelated insurance claim. Rather than sitting down, shaking her hand, or anything else, he stood behind the edge of her door for a moment, then asked her:

"Can I come in? Do you hate Arabs?"

It was a very poignant moment, and they apparently both broke into tears for a few moments.

I really do feel for the Afghan civilians right now... their pleas to the Americans to spare their lives are literally painful to hear. I don't think many of us, honestly, truly want to kill these poor people. It makes my stomach turn to see how afraid these people are of Americans -- and therefore me. I hope our country can stand proud and set an example, as I said before, of the RIGHT way to deal with this. I certainly hope the end result of this scuffle is not a death toll of Afghans, but a new government that supports, protects, and empowers them. "Welcome to the new citizenship of humanity," I hope we say proudly. We need to change their lives, not end them. Maybe, just maybe, the vast majority of these people can be taught the value of human life, their own included, and become prosperous members of an otherwise wonderful, unified, and peaceful world. The rest, sadly, will probably die.

Naturally, this will involve tremendous growing pains, just like those that children undergo as they are punished for wrongdoings they don't yet understand. It's going to be a hard time for Americans and Afghans alike, and many people are likely to die revolting against a new system which only wants to protect them, simply because they can't understand it yet. It will be difficult for them to see their leaders taken from power, and their buildings destroyed. Yet I am hopeful, and will remain so, that the end result of this war will be more positive than a "new parking lot" called Afghanistan.

What a mixture of anger, fear, and sadness we all feel. Waves of each of these emotions will be with us for a long time to come. It's just so sad, because none of us wanted enemies -- they were forced upon us.

As always, comments welcome.

- Warren

 

I think the Taliban spokesman is correct.

 

About what, Charlie, women's rights? Providing a safe haven for Osama Bin Laden?

 

What a misguided thread this has become!

I have friends in NY and I lost some colleagues at the (American) firm I work for. I am troubled by the events, in shock and, as a human being, full of sorrow for the loss of life - on a different scale only if you ignore the horrors of the World Wars, terrorist acts are all too familiar to Europeans.

But let's remember, not everyone in the world cherishes the American way of life and I, as one who believes in democracy, believe that everyone has the right to express their opinion, whether I agree with it or not and whether it is distasteful or not. That some peoples' opinions are of joy at the loss of (not only American) life, is in my eyes a sad reflection of both their view of humanity and the reason I think we're on this planet. But they do not have to love Americans.

Should the families of the people I knew, who died on the streets of Warrington, England (look it up on the map) at the hands of the provisional IRA (the Irish organisation that receives good funding from misguided wealthy American sponsors amongst others) be expressing some perverse kind of joy at what happened on Tuesday also? I don't think so, but you are going to have to admit, America doesn't come to this particular table with clean hands, does it?

It's often been said America might think it a calculated risk worth taking, to fight a nuclear war over European skies - that cloud would have a long way to drift after all. Little wonder someone elsewhere on this thread thought you might not be tempted to land anything on California should the terrorists be found to come from there. Many politicians would be tempted by cynical self interests and those in power in America are not exceptions.

With the kind of comments being made here, do you see how others with a different ideology to yours (and America doesn't have a monopoly on righteousness) might consider America an 'imperialist' nation?

Retaliation is what happens in the school yard, but in 'real life' for a better example look at the troubled history between Israel and Palestine. Retaliation is all they do and see what that's solved.

You will never stamp out terrorism, if you fail to remove the reason for its existence. For every Bin Laden you kill, there'll be another 10 willing to step up and take his place and maybe even make him look like a moderate!

This is a time for clear thinking and intelligent solutions rather than emotion charged rhetoric, and I hope to God that's what happens or we're all doomed. IMO Bush is not up to this job (there have perhaps been only a couple of statesmen in recent history who would be) but whatever is done should be measured, considered and calculated only to bring the perpetrators to justice, whatever that is deemed to be.

Any more, and America will quickly lose the respect of its allies and with it the support that some here want to brandish like a death warrant to everyone who utters anti-American propoganda. In having the mightiest arms, the skill you need is that of never using them.

Just a thought of mine today and I add this just to provoke discussion, not a flame war.

Most of us value freedom of speech and therefore freedom of the media is a consequence of that. Goodness knows exactly what the terrorists' tactics were, but if they designed their attacks to obtain maximum publicity by staging one crash shortly after the first, knowing the whole world's tv sets would be tuned in, doesn't the existence of live, as it happens, news reporting guarantee attention? Suppose just for a minute, let's just say in the interests of taste and decency, there was a mandatory moritorium on the reporting of such incidents, it would be possible to rob the terrorists of the capital they try to make.

Would that make them less likely to try high profile stunts?

In any event, harrassing the members of victims' families in the aftermath, goes way beyond decent standards IMO - does anybody really enjoy seeing these poor people being put through that ordeal, being asked moronic questions by an interviewer who's only objective seems to be to reduce the interviewee to tears, for the 'entertainment' of the tv audience?

These are my opinions only - I don't say any of this to offend anyone, but hopefully to add some balance to the discussion.

 

I think we should assasinate all these terrorists, one by one.
Then we should reduce our nuclear stockpile on terrorist nations.

 

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Man's Best

[B]What a misguided thread this has become!



You will never stamp out terrorism, if you fail to remove the reason for its existence.

 

I am an employee for one of the airlines who lost 2 airliners in this awful act of terroism. And unfortunately i am also a student at one of the flight schools in FL that is in question with 3 students being questioned. I just want to express my sorry to those who have loved ones on those flights as well as in the buildings that were hit. It is just aweful. It is very hard for me...to watch our own plane...hit that building...sickening. But I still am destined to follow my dream to become a pilot for the airline that I am employed. My point is....even though all this has occured..and it is the most terrible thing I have ever been a part of at 22yo. To have the families come up to find out if their loved one was on the plane...we must move on. Look forward and hope, wish, dream, pray for better times ahead. Of course the pictures we have seen and still see look like something out of Armigedine *spelling*...but it doesnt have to be. We had our first flight depart this evening since the attack..and it was very strange...very strange. The flight went out a quarter full. But I'm happy to see that things are trying to get back to our daily routine. Hope I and the rest of you can do the same. God Bless and goodevening.

Des,

 

I can understand the anger many feel, and thus can forgive some of the rather heated statements made on both sides (although it really isn't my place to do so).

In this thread a couple of points have been recurrent that I think are important to consider.

1. You can't stop terrorism. In most respects this is accurate. Even in a police state those with a cause will find a way to take action. The same part of the human condition that allows us to overcome incredible odds and trying times can be converted to undertaking terrorist action (or patriotic, depending upon where you live). But what this statement, in its simplicity, fails to address is that it is difficult for a government, or governing entity to stop terrorism. For the most part, we know that it is difficult for terrorists to carry out acts of mass destruction alone. It requires a network and it requires interacting with the surrounding community. It is here where part of the solution lies. The world as a whole must beware of those who would undertake terrorist acts. Just because a terrorist doesn't attack your homeland doesn't mean you shouldn't beware of them. But how do you communicate that message? The answer has been hinted at in many posts.

First, you retaliate quickly and severely. Do your best to precisely target the perpetrators, but as someone else said, you take the best shot you have. The effect of this action is manifold. It hopefully eliminates the threat. It also provides a graphic demonstration to the surrounding citizenry of what happens to terrorists. It sends a message that you don't want to be anywhere near a terrorist. That means you keep an eye out for them, maybe you turn them in to a government that doesn't want their airspace violated anymore. You force people to police their own cities and countries.

Of course, this may end up killing some innocents. How do you explain to a mother that her dead child is really the fault of the terrorist living next door? You really can't. But you do your best to clearly communicate what happened, you pay reparations, etc. It doesn't make up for a human life, but its something.

In the end, you have to make the cost of terrorism so high for not just the terrorists (who may be willing to pay the ultimate price anyways) but for also for anyone around them, particularly those who know, but choose not to act. This is not an unknown principle in the U.S. or in the world. An omission of action is also a crime in many cases. If you isolate terrorists, you take away much of their power.

2. I must strongly protest the stereotyping and vilification of particular countries and religions. One of the basic tenets of the muslim religion is peace. Don't forget that. Zealots and madmen have twisted all sorts of religions in the past, including Christianity (anyone remember the Crusades from history class?). I'll be the first to admit that the seats of world trouble (IMO) would be better off if they simply disappeared. Too much trouble emanates from the middle east IMO. There are other historical hot spots like the Balkans. For some reason (the water?) people in these areas just can't seem to get along and those regions breed violence generation after generation - and that violence is virulent and spreads. But you know what, we can't nuke em. Nor can we become an isolated nation. The world today will not allow that, nor would most of us want it if we truly thought about the ramifications.

3. Those who talk about the potential for future attacks should be heeded. These terrorists are people who want nothing more than our deaths (meaning Americans). And they will use any means necessary. We must each be vigilant because each of as an individual is a weapon against terrorism. Keep in mind that it is highly unlikely that an attack like Tuesday's could ever happen again without some serious changes by the perpetrators. If you found yourself on a plane with 50 people and 3 terrorists with knives attempted to take over, what would you do? I know I'd do everything possible to stop them - I'd rather die with a knife wound, or crashing into an empty forest, than be a helpless passenger in quest to kill thousands. And I suspect most of you, most of America, would do the same. Unless those terrorists have enough bullets to kill everyone, they aren't going to succeed. Unfortunately, while terrorists are crazy (IMO) they aren't dumb. They probably know this. Which means that they will seek other means the next time.

UL