99GT

I'm no scholar either, and I'm sure someone will jump on me PDQ if I'm wrong ,as it'as a long time since I've looked at this stuff, but any meaningful research into The Gospels is well nigh impossible.. It's not even certain who wrote them as the names assigned to them may not even be the names of the actual authors.There are other problems that even the most devout and scholarly have difficulty reconciling, eg. clear plagerism between some of them and quite astonishing ommissions in some, with The Sermon On The Mount for example, being completely ommitted from one of them, I can't recall which one off hand. By all means do your own reading on the subject.

There are those who will say that none of these things necessarily mean you should reject the accounts, and they'd be right of course. No disrepects to anyone, but I think you have to look at the whole thing warts and all.

We're not going to come to any answers on this here, and I can't help but think I've taken what was at least an interesting thread way off course, so I'll bow out now hoping I've offended no-one.

Thanks for the reply.

 

[QUOTE]Originally posted by 99GT
[B]JonBoy:

 

If you're going to quote things, at least keep it in context. This is a prophecy about the Messianic Day. It's what will happen, not something that should happen.

IMHO anyone that wants to understand The Tanakh should learn to read Hebrew.

 

Cedric (or "Tonky"),

Let me comment on the last part of your post first.

I don't know that my intent has been to "change anyone's mind," convert someone, or convince them that my point of view is correct. One of the things I've found about vigorous debate, is it forces me to verbalize ambiguous thoughts and feelings I've had, and occasionally throw out some bad attitudes. This was true when, as a teenager, I tried to defend my (inherited) racist attitudes, but was confronted with the reality of a black guy becoming one of my best friends. Press [Ctrl][Alt][Del] and reboot.

Likewise, this kind of open (and friendly) debate can cause each of us to learn something, as long as we're all willing to listen with an open mind to what other people have to say.

This is actually a good example of where researching the background and context of the writers can give you some insight into why one knew some details, and others didn't. The Gospels are also one example of why I tend to see the Bible as being more a case of God speaking to people, and letting them write what they feel on their hearts, more than Him dictating to someone and them writing down what He said, word-for-word. If that were the case, you'd expect more consistent coverage of some details, or less overlap, or one predominantly accepted narrative.

Instead, you have the unique perspectives of (at least) four different people. At least one of the books was written earlier than the other three (Mark), and the two of the others are possibly directly derivative.

Even better than just reading the Book itself, is picking up a commentary, or researching a bit online. There are lots of online resources (representing a variety of viewpoints), so you can consider the opinions of many folks who've devoted their lives to such issues.
I couldn't agree more. One of the things I find particularly annoying are people who want to ignore certain parts, either because they seem contradictory, or because they're somehow... ugly.

For example, how many times do you hear the story of Noah and the Ark followed up with his son Ham seeing him naked after a drinking binge, and possibly doing something immoral with Noah in his drunken state? It ain't pretty, but it's there.

I don't think you've taken it off course at all. I think part of the question The Bible Code book tries to answer is whether or not the code in some way validates the notion of God as the author, and/or if it's a book that has special significance. Though I think buying into the book's premise misses the point of those questions, those are the same questions you're addressing, so I think they're relevant.

Tim

P.S. Jon and I have taken some of the more esoteric points into PM (well, he wrote but I haven't had time to respond yet), but I'm still following this. Work and kid-time has kept me off s2ki.com for several days.

 

[QUOTE]Originally posted by TimTheFoolMan
[B]

This is actually a good example of where researching the background and context of the writers can give you some insight into why one knew some details, and others didn't.

 

I tried to decipher the computer codes in my shop manual, and when read backwards, they say "John is dead."

 

Does this supposed bible code actually predict anything testable or just purport to describe events that have already happened? Isn't it rather obvious that in a large enough text it would be possible to find apparent indicators of anything at all, given the almost infinite range of possible codings? Isn't it also obvious that finding apparent links between said text and historical events is not prediction at all? (Yes I know the events took place after the text was written, the point is they took place before the alleged code was "found".)

 

naishou,

The original researchers (Israeli mathematicians if I recall correctly) never suggested that the technique would be capable of predicting the future. They simply noted the "remarkable" events of history that they could find in the existing text.

Apparently, their tests of other large works (such as War & Peace) were flawed, since others have since found similar results to what was found in the Bible.

Tim

 

Anyone who knows anything about coding or cryptography knows you can "find" anything you like in any piece of information (provided there's enough). All you need is a suitable transform. Any set of data can be transformed into any other of the same information content. Doing so after the fact proves absolutely nothing other than that you're a good mathematician.

 

I picked up a copy of The Bible Code II at a bookstore tonight and thumbed through it. Not only does the author claim that it predicted the 9/11 attack on the WTC, he claims that there are predictions about Yassir Arafat's death, holocaust in the middle east, and so on.

Amusingly, the author has been travelling around the world trying to warn people of their impending doom (or, presumably, that they're about to bring doom upon someone else).

Tim