I think this is interesting.

JonBoy, you ever hear the saying, "Can't see the forest for the trees?" Close examination of every line of the Old Testament will only obscure the meaning of the text, as the scholar loses sight of the meaning of the book itself.

Maybe because the Catholic Church doesn't put much stock in what some fundementalists call "prophecy," I don't have much faith in what some see as "secret truths revealed."

 

[QUOTE]Originally posted by JonBoy
[B]

Those that wish to see it sincerely will see it - those that merely want it to prove it "wrong" or to know it, then reject it, probably aren't going to figure it all out.

 

[QUOTE]Originally posted by 99GT
[B]I think this is interesting.

JonBoy, you ever hear the saying, "Can't see the forest for the trees?"

 

quote: "Take statements from six people witnessing the same event and you'll have six very different accounts of that event."

That is why there are several accounts of the same events from different authors. Just in the New Testament alone there are writings by the four Apostles about the days of Christ. When four different accounts agree, most rational people tend to concede the events actually occurred. Of course, some people make claims about the books of the Bible that are not universally accepted, but to pretend that the whole body of knowledge is pure fiction is astonishing to me.

As for not knowing the world is round, an ancient Greek mathematician actually calculated the circumference of the globe long before Christ. I forget his name, but a round earth has been common knowledge to navigators and engineers for millennia.

JonBoy: There are many things we won't agree on. Putting words into my mouth is unnecessary. Bibilical times were very violent, and some days it doesn't seem like we have made much progress, but if you want to return to days when killing people for their beliefs was an acceptable way to deal with diversity, and killing every living thing in a city was seen as a sacrifice, as holy worship, you are seriously not learning anything from the thousands of years of knowledge you claim to have read. Those books aren't preserved so we can emulate our forefathers, but so we can learn from them, and make better choices for ourselves and our descendants.

 

[QUOTE]Originally posted by 99GT
[B]
JonBoy:

 

[QUOTE]Originally posted by 99GT
[B]quote:

 

If you ask me, we're not ANY better off than we were as a race 2000 years ago, simply because we are still dealing with the same conflicts as we were then. Sure, we think we know more about how the world works and how to act towards each other...but current events tell a different story

 

What makes me read Torah is the way it was given at Mt. Sinai. Not to a single person, but the whole Nation experienced the giving. There's no way that idea and traditions would survive if it started as a story from one guy, rumors like that can't spread in a period of 40 years. That would be like having everyone in the world today convinced that WWII never happened!!

If you want a nitty gritty spiritual explanation you can PM me, it gets a little heavy for OT discussion.

 

JonBoy: Perhaps the statement "putting words into my mouth" was inaccurate. I was thinking you were taking my "meaning of the Bible" to be more than it was, i.e. that we should always be victims. The Old Testament recounts many battles, and many victories, but 100 years ago the children of Abraham were scattered accross the globe. Through the centuries they have contributed to the art and science of the entire world. That is a much better contribution than what occurred many times over in the Old Testament. It is a good thing that the Israelites scattered and spread knowledge and history to communities from Madrid to Moscow.

I am not one to quote Scripture to prove a point, but I can find several mentions of how people should act, as a group:

Isaiah 2:4
And he shall judge among the nations, and shall rebuke many people: and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks: nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more.

Joel 3:10
Beat your plowshares into swords, and your pruninghooks into spears: let the weak say, I [am] strong.

Micah 4:3
And he shall judge among many people, and rebuke strong nations afar off; and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks: nation shall not lift up a sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more.

These quotes are out of context, using a search engine, but they are clear in their meaning. I won't argue that they may address a more specific situation, but I still think they are good advice.

This last quote is lame, but the best I could come up with on short notice:
Matthew 5:39
But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.

I used the King James version for the search, only because we all should be familiar with it, even if we all may not consider it the final authority.

Even if you disagree with me, I appreciate the reasons why. I am not so educated as to think I am aware of everything. Cheers:thumsup:

 

Cedric: "(b) Did they have any opportunity to discuss the matter between themselves before they wrote their accounts? (They did)"

AFAIK, and I ask the resident scholars to clarify this, the authors of the Gospels Luke, John, Peter, and Paul (the four corroborating accounts), were not contemporaries, so their getting together over tea to discuss the great novel is not likely. There are other examples of different authors describing the same events in the Old Testament, but I am not a Bible scholar, so you would need to either research it yourself or maybe ask someone who is.