Chicken or the egg?
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From: Helena
About the moths: I don't think adaptation or evolution occured. If you have white trees and black and white moths which ones are natually camouflaged, which ones will get eaten? Now lets assume that the factory turns the trees brown or black, what moths are now camouflaged? Which ones will now be eaten? It's all very simple. You don't need a haphazard theory to explain it. Someone previously brought up the fossil record in support of evolution. Let me tell you how to stop an evolutionists in their tracks. Bring up the fossil record. Evolution teaches us that animals slowly evolved from one species to another so then if this is true if we were to take handfull of fossils and flip them like an old cartoon book( you know the ones you had as a kid that you flipped and images in the upper right hand corner would move), you would witness before your very eyes a monkey turning into a gorilla turing into a human. But in truth what happens, you see a monkey then a gorilla then a human then a pig then a dog and so forth. Even Darwin said that the fossil record destroys his theory of evolution but he stated that maybe enough fossils haven't been discovered yet and in time we would find the "inbetween fossils" to prove his theory. Well 125 years later we have discovered more fossils and now Darwin has even less ground to stand on then when he doubted himself. Darwin also said in his book "Origin" and I quote but sorry I don't remember the page number"To think that something as complexe as the eye has evolved from a simple one celled organism is most absurd in the highest degree".
Also notice how the theory of evolution is constantly changing, scientists keep proving themselves wrong and then they have to change their theory. When I was in school I was taught that the earth was 2.6 billion years old. Now they say the earth is 6.4 billion years old, I would suppose the reason for this is they have found more fossils of animals that don't fit in their "evolutionary timeline" so they have to add years in order to give that species time to "evolve" from another.
That is something the Bible has never done, change. God said His word was the same yesterday, today, and tomorrow. The days in the Bible have always been a 24 hour period. Genesis talks about using the stars and moon and sun as ways to calculate time. People change Gods word but Gods word doesn't change. Biblically speaking the earth is 6,000 to 10,000 years old. That is a pretty young earth . Remember when scientists in the 1950's were worried about landing a craft on the moon because they were able to measure the rate the dust gathered on the moon and they thought that if the earth was truly millions of years old that a craft landing on the moon would just sink in and bury itself? Instead they found that the dust was only 1ina half to 2 inches deep(NASA figured about 6,000 years).
I recently saw on the Discovery channel that evolutionists have proven that snakes used to have legs, that is mentioned in Genesis chpt. 3:14 "AND THE LORD GOD SAID UNTO THE SERPENT, BECAUSE THOU HAST DONE THIS, THOU ART CURSED ABOVE ALL CATTLE, AND ABOVE EVERY BEAST OF THE FIELD; UPON THY BELLY SHALT THOU GO, AND DUST SHALT THOU EAT ALL THE DAYS OF THY LIFE:"
I also remeber learning in school that at one time all the continents were gathered as one huge land mass and then slowly broke apart. Genesis chpt.10:25 "and unto E'ber were born two sons: the name of one was Pe'leg; FOR IN HIS DAYS WAS THE EARTH DIVIDED; and his brother's name was Jok'tan." (emphasis added) according to the Bible Pe'leg lived 252 years.
Did you know genetically the closest animal to a human is the chicken not the gorilla?
I'm not trying to push my biblical belief onto anybody, I just thought I would give my .02. Oh, by the way, the chicken came first.
Also notice how the theory of evolution is constantly changing, scientists keep proving themselves wrong and then they have to change their theory. When I was in school I was taught that the earth was 2.6 billion years old. Now they say the earth is 6.4 billion years old, I would suppose the reason for this is they have found more fossils of animals that don't fit in their "evolutionary timeline" so they have to add years in order to give that species time to "evolve" from another.
That is something the Bible has never done, change. God said His word was the same yesterday, today, and tomorrow. The days in the Bible have always been a 24 hour period. Genesis talks about using the stars and moon and sun as ways to calculate time. People change Gods word but Gods word doesn't change. Biblically speaking the earth is 6,000 to 10,000 years old. That is a pretty young earth . Remember when scientists in the 1950's were worried about landing a craft on the moon because they were able to measure the rate the dust gathered on the moon and they thought that if the earth was truly millions of years old that a craft landing on the moon would just sink in and bury itself? Instead they found that the dust was only 1ina half to 2 inches deep(NASA figured about 6,000 years).
I recently saw on the Discovery channel that evolutionists have proven that snakes used to have legs, that is mentioned in Genesis chpt. 3:14 "AND THE LORD GOD SAID UNTO THE SERPENT, BECAUSE THOU HAST DONE THIS, THOU ART CURSED ABOVE ALL CATTLE, AND ABOVE EVERY BEAST OF THE FIELD; UPON THY BELLY SHALT THOU GO, AND DUST SHALT THOU EAT ALL THE DAYS OF THY LIFE:"
I also remeber learning in school that at one time all the continents were gathered as one huge land mass and then slowly broke apart. Genesis chpt.10:25 "and unto E'ber were born two sons: the name of one was Pe'leg; FOR IN HIS DAYS WAS THE EARTH DIVIDED; and his brother's name was Jok'tan." (emphasis added) according to the Bible Pe'leg lived 252 years.
Did you know genetically the closest animal to a human is the chicken not the gorilla?
I'm not trying to push my biblical belief onto anybody, I just thought I would give my .02. Oh, by the way, the chicken came first.
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From: Sydney
Oh boy, where do I start?
Clocks don't slow down or speed up due to gravity, time does. If you were on that airplane with the wind up clock, the atomic clock, and the mobile phone with the time display (the standard of all time reckoning in the modern world) you wouldn't notice a difference no matter how fast you went or how good the inflight movie was. But when you landed you'd notice that the clocks on the ground were running fast and your twin brother seemed to have aged a bit.
When Charles Darwin was kickin' back in the Galapagos Islands he noticed that the finches on one island where there were lots of nectar flowers had long thin beaks (for sucking nectar) and the finches of the same species on another island where there were a lot of seeded plants had short stubby beaks (for cracking the husks). Why? Because when two finches were hatched on island 1 the one with the longer beak was better able to feed and had a higher chance of survival. The opposite was true on island two. This has and is happening all over the world all the time in infinitisimal small increments.
Watch repair and the genome? Huh, if you had a jar full of watch bits and a jar full of genes and a whole lot of spare time to shake you'd have a fully assembled Rolex a long time before you have at 98% match with the human genome.
As for the bible. How can you say it doen't change when there are several conflicting versions in existance even today. Four hundred years ago the bible said the Earth was the centre of the universe and the sun and heavens revolved around it. What happened to that chapter? Galileo would really like to know.
As for the chicken and the egg, it's a matter of words and nothing else. The 'Chicken' as we know it today is only a few hundred years old. 'Chicken' is a subset of 'bird'. 'Egg' is a much more general term. Reptiles, Amphibians, Fish and Birds (did I forget the monotremes) all lay eggs. Fact is there was once a bird very similar to a chicken and it laid an egg. Out of that egg popped a 'Chicken ™'. Whether it was cosmic entropy, the hand of god, or Colonel Sanders with a chemistry set doesn't change it.
Clocks don't slow down or speed up due to gravity, time does. If you were on that airplane with the wind up clock, the atomic clock, and the mobile phone with the time display (the standard of all time reckoning in the modern world) you wouldn't notice a difference no matter how fast you went or how good the inflight movie was. But when you landed you'd notice that the clocks on the ground were running fast and your twin brother seemed to have aged a bit.
When Charles Darwin was kickin' back in the Galapagos Islands he noticed that the finches on one island where there were lots of nectar flowers had long thin beaks (for sucking nectar) and the finches of the same species on another island where there were a lot of seeded plants had short stubby beaks (for cracking the husks). Why? Because when two finches were hatched on island 1 the one with the longer beak was better able to feed and had a higher chance of survival. The opposite was true on island two. This has and is happening all over the world all the time in infinitisimal small increments.
Watch repair and the genome? Huh, if you had a jar full of watch bits and a jar full of genes and a whole lot of spare time to shake you'd have a fully assembled Rolex a long time before you have at 98% match with the human genome.
As for the bible. How can you say it doen't change when there are several conflicting versions in existance even today. Four hundred years ago the bible said the Earth was the centre of the universe and the sun and heavens revolved around it. What happened to that chapter? Galileo would really like to know.
As for the chicken and the egg, it's a matter of words and nothing else. The 'Chicken' as we know it today is only a few hundred years old. 'Chicken' is a subset of 'bird'. 'Egg' is a much more general term. Reptiles, Amphibians, Fish and Birds (did I forget the monotremes) all lay eggs. Fact is there was once a bird very similar to a chicken and it laid an egg. Out of that egg popped a 'Chicken ™'. Whether it was cosmic entropy, the hand of god, or Colonel Sanders with a chemistry set doesn't change it.
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From: Toronto
Okay let me ask 2 questions of the creationists.
We know that the universe is expanding. If it is expanding we know that our Solar System must have existed at some other physical place earlier in time. So if we go back in time, all objects in the universe will be at the same place...thus the Big Bang theory.
Now let me take this further, we are now trying to calculate all the mass that is in the universe. This will be very difficult as there is a lot of "ground" to cover to account for all the mass in the known universe. Not to mention objects such as black hole "hide" incredible amounts of mass due to thier properties.
But if the universe has enough mass, the gravitatonal pull of all these objects will at some point stop the expansion of the universe. The universe will then start to contract. Slowly at first, but surely and steadily speed up. There will come a point where all this mass will be reunited...and we will cease to exist.
So my first question is...why would the Creator create an environment for us where will cease to exist?
Regarding the fossil records...What Naishou stated is exactly correct. If we were to keep a fossil record starting today and keep it for millions of years and then apply your "flip book" idea to it, I will bet you will see a slow and steady change.
24 hours is the time it takes for the Earth to make one complete rotation, do you honestly think God choose this as his "work day" to create things. IF he did decide on 24 hours, why did he choose the Earth's rotation time and not say Jupiter's? I think it was convenient for man to come up with that time.
If the Earth is only 6- 10K years old and we are in the year 2K, that only leaves between 4k and 8K for the "rest of history".
My second question is why is there no mention of dinosaurs in the Bible, we have the proof that they existed?
We know that the universe is expanding. If it is expanding we know that our Solar System must have existed at some other physical place earlier in time. So if we go back in time, all objects in the universe will be at the same place...thus the Big Bang theory.
Now let me take this further, we are now trying to calculate all the mass that is in the universe. This will be very difficult as there is a lot of "ground" to cover to account for all the mass in the known universe. Not to mention objects such as black hole "hide" incredible amounts of mass due to thier properties.
But if the universe has enough mass, the gravitatonal pull of all these objects will at some point stop the expansion of the universe. The universe will then start to contract. Slowly at first, but surely and steadily speed up. There will come a point where all this mass will be reunited...and we will cease to exist.
So my first question is...why would the Creator create an environment for us where will cease to exist?
Regarding the fossil records...What Naishou stated is exactly correct. If we were to keep a fossil record starting today and keep it for millions of years and then apply your "flip book" idea to it, I will bet you will see a slow and steady change.
That is something the Bible has never done, change. God said His word was the same yesterday, today, and tomorrow. The days in the Bible have always been a 24 hour period. Genesis talks about using the stars and moon and sun as ways to calculate time. People change Gods word but Gods word doesn't change. Biblically speaking the earth is 6,000 to 10,000 years old. That is a pretty young earth . Remember when scientists in the 1950's were worried about landing a craft on the moon because they were able to measure the rate the dust gathered on the moon and they thought that if the earth was truly millions of years old that a craft landing on the moon would just sink in and bury itself? Instead they found that the dust was only 1ina half to 2 inches deep(NASA figured about 6,000 years).
If the Earth is only 6- 10K years old and we are in the year 2K, that only leaves between 4k and 8K for the "rest of history".
My second question is why is there no mention of dinosaurs in the Bible, we have the proof that they existed?
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From: Wheeler Army Airfield, HI
Originally posted by Underdog
I recently saw on the Discovery channel that evolutionists have proven that snakes used to have legs, that is mentioned in Genesis chpt. 3:14 "AND THE LORD GOD SAID UNTO THE SERPENT, BECAUSE THOU HAST DONE THIS, THOU ART CURSED ABOVE ALL CATTLE, AND ABOVE EVERY BEAST OF THE FIELD; UPON THY BELLY SHALT THOU GO, AND DUST SHALT THOU EAT ALL THE DAYS OF THY LIFE:"
I recently saw on the Discovery channel that evolutionists have proven that snakes used to have legs, that is mentioned in Genesis chpt. 3:14 "AND THE LORD GOD SAID UNTO THE SERPENT, BECAUSE THOU HAST DONE THIS, THOU ART CURSED ABOVE ALL CATTLE, AND ABOVE EVERY BEAST OF THE FIELD; UPON THY BELLY SHALT THOU GO, AND DUST SHALT THOU EAT ALL THE DAYS OF THY LIFE:"
Who wrote the bible? A bunch of people. How do we know it is accurate? Who cares, what they wrote must be truth.
I wonder if a person found a snake and couldn't figure out why it didn't have legs. At the time (science wasn't really mature yet) they used a theory (just as in science today) that an all powerful being made it so because in their mind there was no other possible answer. Evolution didn't exist to them so how could it have even been used in the persons thought process.
Kinda makes me wonder a bit.
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From: Toronto
Originally posted by AusS2000
Either way, I guess it's the same reason there are earthquakes that wipe out whole towns.
Either way, I guess it's the same reason there are earthquakes that wipe out whole towns.
To answer that from a secular point of view: Shit happens
From a religious point of view: 'The lord works in mysterious ways'.
[/QUOTE]
This is the easy way out
. We can say that for any point we do not understand. I don't view that as furthering our understanding of any topic. Just as a way of saying...I don't know and I don't care to know.
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From: Sydney
Originally posted by AusS2000
Commonly referred to as the gnaB giB.
Commonly referred to as the gnaB giB.
