Palmateer

Here is an interesting recent post from the M3 Forum (Writer is used to driving in European E36 M3s with 321hp):

I just got back from Germany this weekend, where I was over there on business. I was aware one of my German associates had been waiting for the new E46 M3, he had a E36 M3 prior. Well I had the day off on saturday and decided to take him up on his offer to drive the new M3.

His car was fully loaded. It was Carbon Black on imola red interior. The Carbon Black looks pretty bad to be honest, although I did like the contrast the red interior had on the car. I think a jet black with red, or a White with red interior could look really sharp. The Carbon black looks like a disgusting purple in cetain angles and I am just not very fond of it.

Since I have never been in the E46 3 series before, the first thing that Struck me was how different the seating position and cabin feel are in this car. Its definately more luxurious and plush than the prior model, but I much preffered the "cockpit" feel of the E36. The seats were wonderful I might add. Very comfortable and really held you into the seat.

Ok so enough of the boring details. I will tell you about the drive. Just for the record I am used to driving in E36 M3's with 321hp so the power increase is not as dramatic to me. But the engine characteristics have definately changed. First gear the revs build very very fast. Supprisingly the engine note is not that loud even @ 8000 rpm, it definately needs an aftermarket exhaust to bring some excitement to that engine note. Full throttle in first gear and you can feel the wheels trying to grip, hard shift into 2nd and the car slides a little with the power overpowering the wheels for a split second (I have traction off). The shiftgate is nice, but not as short or precise as it should be. The steering wheel is very thick fits in the hand niceley.

Acceleration in gear is very impressive. Although it does require the lowest gear to really take off. The car has nice balance, begging to be reved and pushed harder and harder. I have been in many high performance sports cars and felt the new M3 to be a little too heavy, and the steering to be a little to over-assisted. Although its somewhat direct, you dont feel attached to the road like you do in a 911 or even a Miata. Nonetheless it still has a nice feel. Understeer is definately apparent when driving this car hard. The handling and feel is not as nuetral as the E36 M3 I was accustomed to driving.

Many of you in the states will be excited because it is a lot faster than 240HP E36 model. Where that car begins to lose its hard pull over 90mph, this car rockets forward. Basically its as fast are you are willing to go. Mid Range and up it doesnt feel as fast as the 996's I have been in, most likely this has to do with weight and drag, but I am sure its just as fast. Many of you on this board I have noticed talk about the Z06 vette. Although the M3 is fast, its not in that league at all. It didnt feel any faster than the Euro E36 M3's I have been in, what was different is the response. The engine feels more willing to rev and it seems to be more resonsive to throttle inputs.

Overall this is a nice package. The design was only "so-so" maybe this had to do with the carbon black which I feel really loses most of the lines on the car. I am mixed on this. There seems to be something missing in the design. The overally aggressive front end is nice, but that muscular "theme" in the design doesnt carry over anywhere else. I think my biggest complaint is the way the car looks from the side. In my opinion the E36 M3 looks more sleek and aggressive from the side. Good thing the exhaust pipes look bad, that way when you replace with aftermarket exhaust (which it needs) you wont feel that bad. I would also considering replacing the wheels. They look decent all perfect, but when you see them with a little dirt on them, espcecially on a black car, they look pretty drab.

I guess the overall thing I can say about this car is that for the many things it lacks (color, design, road feel, understeer, weight) it just about makes up for with the engine. Its a fast car no question. Its a great step up for us in the states used to the 240HP model. But I guess the question is....Is it worth the hype? Is it really a blast drive?

My answer is mixed. For strictly power reasons I would say yes its worth the price of admission. But....the car isnt that "fun" to drive. Sure its quick, sure its well built, but its simply too dam heavy and I think overly refined to be "a lot of fun" to drive. I have driven the boxster s on the same roads and that was much more fun to drive than the m3. The communication the boxster s has with the driver is just far superior to that of the M3, which feels distant as times, and understeers badly where it should be more nuetral. I know the 13.3 1/4 mile time of the M3 will sell the car, but to me there should be more than just that. Maybe its the seating position, maybe its the quiet engine, maybe its the over-assisted steering, but something about the car doesnt bring it all together. Its good but I was expecting great. I firmly believe the car needs to shed 500lbs to be something special. Weight simply works against all the things you want to do with its handling.

I credit BMW for making the "M3" a model that now has mass appeal. I just wonder at what expense. I am a car enthusiast. I know I am a small market. What I fear is that BMW is making the M3 into "womans" car. No offense ladies. Where it should be edgy, its too soft. Where the wheels inputs should be heavy in your hands, its too light. Where the car itself should stay nuetral around hard corners, its plows into understeer. All of these characteristics make it a safer car on the road, but much much less fun than M3's in the past. So in terms of engine I would say this M3 has made a new leap forward, but in terms of making a car that encorporates the "soul" of a ///M car this one falls pretty short. It does a lot of things ok, but nothing great. It will sell because it appeals a little bit to everyone, but wont completely satisfy everyone completely. I am passionate about driving, and will now drop off the list for the M3 and put an order in on the M3 GT model that has been rumored to come out. Its gimmicks like having to push a "sport" button to really make the engine come to life that just shows me BMW is more concerned with making the M3 soft and then adding performance later.

Its a nice buy I guess, but a lot more fun can be had in many other cars out there. If you need a commuter and want build quality than I would get the M3. But if you want an all out, no compromise, car that is fun to take down those back roads fast, get a boxster s, Z06 vette, even the miata (although lacking in power) is more "fun" to drive hard. I will ask my associate to come on this board and share his feelings on the car. He did express his dissapointment as well to a degree.

"I could have been somebody..I could have been somebody" -M3 (if it wasnt designed for women and mass production)

Sev

BMW should bring out a lightweight version like they did with the E36.

Your feelings have been the general consensus of all who have driven the E46.

Well done and thank you for the detailed description.

cthree

Interesting post, well written. The one thing I love about the S2000, and which makes it IMO the best car for me, is the great big smile I get when I drive it, even short distances. Its tight response and transparent road feel are fantastic. Dispite it being large by some standards, it has the feel of a very small and light car. It tracks like a go-cart and offers a wicked auditory experience which to me takes it that one step higher than everything else.

The rush from the feel of the tight and purpose built cockpit and supportive seats is how I like to start my day. Even before you start it up it is a wonderful experience. My favorite time in the car is under full acceleration, slightly uphill, 2nd gear with the engine roaring under load at 7000 RPM and climbing. Then a quick click-click into third as the redline indicator blips.

I may not make it up that hill faster than everything out there but to me I'm going a million miles per hour and that's what really counts isn't it?

Sev

Exactly Cthree, it is the overall experience that counts not whichever is faster since the experience is what makes you love the car and not only like it.

cthree

I should also point out that while I may not make it up the hill with some cars, I can beat most, certainly those in the price range. The S2000 is priced right where a sports car should be. It's been a long time since middle class people could afford to participate in sportscar enthusiasm. By removing the luxury garbage Honda has allowed me to own a first rate sports car. To that I thank them because for me it's more than a vehicle but a dream. The S2000 has changed my life more than any other inanimate object could.

I've dreamed of sportscars since 13 years old. Now, due to life circumstances, I am in a position to own one. For this reason the S2000 holds a special place.

loki

Sev, if you're not already aware, they are.

It;s not being called the LW tho, but it will be a racier M3 with the M5 engine as car #54 is running in Lemans now. That thing will be a beast! EST price is $70k, should be unvieled at autoshows this fall.

Sev

Not that i would be able to afford one for the time being but what kind of specs are we talking.

Slapping in a larger engine and not making it lighter will not solve the issues most people are raising though.

Thanks in advance.

huyto

My thoughts exactly Mr. administrator!

StudentDriver

The V8 motor in the M5 is suppose to be lighter than the I6 motor in the E46 M3.

Silver S2K

I don't hve the numbers, but what StudentDriver says is correct I think. The M5 motor is Al block and head while the M3 motor is Al head and Iron block.