... this thread is to continue an o/t discussion from this thread:

http://forums.s2ki.com/forums/showthread.p...threadid=182696

... the last two relevant posts:

[QUOTE][SIZE=1][B]Originally posted by Pok

 

Spare a thought for us poor souls in the UK with the highest taxed fuel on the planet, "tax" cameras hiding almost everywhere you go, "stealth taxes" on everything you buy, and 41% income tax! What do we get in return? "Speed humps" on most local roads, wheel busting pot-holes in roads out of town, gridlocked motorways, wheel clamps & tow-offs if you park anywhere that doesn't clean out the rest of your cash, and the government would like to tax us extra if we park our cars at work!!

Don't come to live here if you drive a car (but if you want a free kidney from our health service, free housing if you're out of work, or you want cash for some minority PC cause, feel free to come over and take your pick, there's tax

 

Damn and I thought I lived in the "Tax you to death" state!

 

You've got nothing on us ..... we have to earn

 

mikdys, I sympathize with your frustration. It seems to me that the stratification of western civilization in general of the educated and the uneducated is creating a situation where the state is seen as being responsible to support people who have trouble adjusting to new economic realities. This is only going to get worse as manual labor becomes less and less valuable. It seems that different nations are dealing with this issue at different rates, and in different ways. I can definitely see why the approach the UK is taking can be very frusterating for many.

(Kurt Vonnegut addresses this problem in Player Piano, also known as Utopia 14, a very salient look at this challenge to human society.)

It is worth noting, as you touched on, that there are some advantages to living in the UK. Compared to the US, for instance, I think your educational and medical systems have some superior aspects. You touched on the medical model, so let me mention that someone who wants to become a doctor or a lawyer here has to spend seven to eight years in University and then graduate school, accumulating a typical debt of US$30,000 to US$90,000.

-Avi

 

avi4now, thanks for your thoughts.

But, to go back to the "medical model in the UK", as an example, a poorly thought out organisation means that a lot more money is spent than necessary and service is not always given to priority cases, or to the indigenous people. The main driver in the hospitals here seems to be arbitrary targets thought up by the government and enforced by an army of "managers", which all gets in the way of the more limited medical staff. I believe that if you are spending your own money you will spend it sensibly. If you are spending somebody elses's money, what makes you care?

This is a big issue in my view - our goverment should be getting "more bang for the taxpayers buck". Also, in a democracy (surely...?) tax spend should only be spent on what the voters want it spent on and the voter's wishes should be represented, not the wishes and whims of the politician's?

Finally, there has to be a limit to taxation beyond which spending has to be restricted. Do you have budgets in your business and home?

 

PS

Check out this link as just one example of the sort of thing I am talking about over here:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/devon/3449219.stm

 

[QUOTE]Originally posted by mikdys
This is a big issue in my view - our goverment should be getting "more bang for the taxpayers buck".

 

Let me say that I didn't vote for them (I always attend to vote), nobody I know voted for them, and yet they still got in! Why? I think there are two reasons; one is the crazy way the vote is split up over here ("by areas" and that the incumbent government has since changed to suit them still better), and the second (as you indicate) is voter apathy.

Probably the best bet to get them out is "tactical voting" in each area with a central co-ordination of this via the internet (like the fuel strike some time back now). The trouble is it would take more than a few dedicated individuals and the apathy factor would still apply no doubt!

My answer? If they get in office again I'm emigrating!

 

The LAbour party at times are healded as the best thing since sliced bread. Mainly by the lower classes who are reaping the benefits of all those taxes. I know the forum is to remain unpolitical but here is a statement of fact:

61 taxation rises or new taxes since Labour came to government.