Different perspective of the ILWU lockout
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From: Anchorage
To balance the anti-union sentiment on other threads on the forum, I wanted to offer a pro-union view. While I understand and respect views of others on this subject, I also disagree with them.
Having served as an elected representative in an AFL-CIO affiliated Union, I can offer a different perspective on trade unionism.
At the dawn of the industrial revolution, trade unions were indeed instrumental in securing a (mandated) safe workplace for American workers. Early work by trade unions planted the seeds for programs like OSHA, Workman
Having served as an elected representative in an AFL-CIO affiliated Union, I can offer a different perspective on trade unionism.
At the dawn of the industrial revolution, trade unions were indeed instrumental in securing a (mandated) safe workplace for American workers. Early work by trade unions planted the seeds for programs like OSHA, Workman
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From: Denver CO
This is a nice monologue. Certainly many people have indicated that they understand why unions have existed, even if they are questioning the need for them in present day. I wish you would educate yourself on the specifics of this dispute and address those issues. If I had the time I'd educate you. Maybe later.
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From: Anchorage
Originally posted by mingster
... if i was making between 80 to 120 thousand dollars a year - is that not a living wage?
... if i was making between 80 to 120 thousand dollars a year - is that not a living wage?
If you look at that wage as a percentage of what profits the business makes and as a basis of worker productivity and contribution to derive that profit, it's a reasonable wage. If you look at the wage compared to a MINIMUM wage, then you'll probably think that it's excessive.
Remember, the responsibility of corporate board is to keep costs down and profits up. Paying labor less is one way to accomplish this goal. Set against the backdrop of a federally mandated minimum wage, it's easy to pay workers not what they contribute to the company, but what they will settle for. This is true for corporate boards and small business owners.
Regards -
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From: seattle
I've belonged to two unions (retail clerks and restaurant workers) while working my way through school. The union wages were artificially high but my hours were kept just under the limit (I think it was 22.5/wk) of getting any benefits (other than the pay). You had no choice in the matter of joining the union. No membership, no job.
No thanks.
Here's an excerpt from the Seattle Times Q&A on the lockout. BTW - my wife works for a freight forwarder. During the slowdown - handling of containers went from 30/hr to 3/hr. No "slowdown" my ass.
QUOTE:
Business & Technology: Thursday, October 03, 2002
Questions and answers on the lockout
By Seattle Times staff and News Services
E-mail this article
Print this article Coast dockworkers announced yesterday they will work with a federal mediator to help resolve technology issues in a contract dispute with the Pacific Maritime Association.
Peter Hurtgen, director of the Federal Mediation and Conciliation Service, met with union representatives yesterday and said the 10,500-member union and the shipping companies may not be as far apart as their fiery public rhetoric would indicate.
The contract dispute has effectively closed all West Coast ports since Friday and paralyzed the flow of billions of dollars worth of cargo headed for all 50 states.
"The parties realize, I realize, everybody realizes the pressure on the economy caused by the shutdown," Hurtgen said.
Last night, the shutdown claimed the auto industry's first casualty: New United Motor Manufacturing in Fremont, Calif., a joint venture between General Motors and Toyota that employs 5,500 and produces about 1,500 vehicles a day. It makes the Toyota Corolla and Tacoma and Pontiac Vibe for the North American market and the Toyota Voltz for export to Japan.
Spokesman Michael Damer said the plant's truck and car lines were suspending production late yesterday because the factory has run out of vital parts, primarily engines and transmissions.
At the ports of Seattle and Tacoma, more than 300 workers represented by the Machinists union have been laid off by PMA members since Monday. Robert James, president of Machinists District 289, said shipping companies and terminal operators had expressed concern over the workers' safety because of threats and intimidation by picketing longshore workers.
Longshore union spokesman Jack Block Jr. said longshore workers haven't been harassing Machinists. He called the layoffs a "win-win" that would allow the Machinists to support the locked-out dockworkers. As the dispute enters its sixth day, here's a look at the key issues:
Who is involved in the shutdown?
The dispute pits two of the most powerful organizations on the waterfront: the Pacific Maritime Association (PMA) and the International Longshore and Warehouse Union (ILWU).
The PMA represents 79 steamship companies and terminal operators responsible for the vast majority of cargo heading to and from the West Coast. It negotiates labor agreements and administers payroll and employee benefits.
The ILWU represents the 10,500 crane operators, clerks and dockworkers who load, unload, and process the cargo that drives international trade.
What is the sticking point?
Technology. The PMA wants to introduce tracking and processing technology
No thanks.
Here's an excerpt from the Seattle Times Q&A on the lockout. BTW - my wife works for a freight forwarder. During the slowdown - handling of containers went from 30/hr to 3/hr. No "slowdown" my ass.
QUOTE:
Business & Technology: Thursday, October 03, 2002
Questions and answers on the lockout
By Seattle Times staff and News Services
E-mail this article
Print this article Coast dockworkers announced yesterday they will work with a federal mediator to help resolve technology issues in a contract dispute with the Pacific Maritime Association.
Peter Hurtgen, director of the Federal Mediation and Conciliation Service, met with union representatives yesterday and said the 10,500-member union and the shipping companies may not be as far apart as their fiery public rhetoric would indicate.
The contract dispute has effectively closed all West Coast ports since Friday and paralyzed the flow of billions of dollars worth of cargo headed for all 50 states.
"The parties realize, I realize, everybody realizes the pressure on the economy caused by the shutdown," Hurtgen said.
Last night, the shutdown claimed the auto industry's first casualty: New United Motor Manufacturing in Fremont, Calif., a joint venture between General Motors and Toyota that employs 5,500 and produces about 1,500 vehicles a day. It makes the Toyota Corolla and Tacoma and Pontiac Vibe for the North American market and the Toyota Voltz for export to Japan.
Spokesman Michael Damer said the plant's truck and car lines were suspending production late yesterday because the factory has run out of vital parts, primarily engines and transmissions.
At the ports of Seattle and Tacoma, more than 300 workers represented by the Machinists union have been laid off by PMA members since Monday. Robert James, president of Machinists District 289, said shipping companies and terminal operators had expressed concern over the workers' safety because of threats and intimidation by picketing longshore workers.
Longshore union spokesman Jack Block Jr. said longshore workers haven't been harassing Machinists. He called the layoffs a "win-win" that would allow the Machinists to support the locked-out dockworkers. As the dispute enters its sixth day, here's a look at the key issues:
Who is involved in the shutdown?
The dispute pits two of the most powerful organizations on the waterfront: the Pacific Maritime Association (PMA) and the International Longshore and Warehouse Union (ILWU).
The PMA represents 79 steamship companies and terminal operators responsible for the vast majority of cargo heading to and from the West Coast. It negotiates labor agreements and administers payroll and employee benefits.
The ILWU represents the 10,500 crane operators, clerks and dockworkers who load, unload, and process the cargo that drives international trade.
What is the sticking point?
Technology. The PMA wants to introduce tracking and processing technology
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Thread Starter
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From: Anchorage
Originally posted by PeaceLove&S2K
ironwedge,
Why are you driving a car that isn't put together by union workers?
j/k
ironwedge,
Why are you driving a car that isn't put together by union workers?
j/k
Check out the JAW homepage ( http://www.jaw.or.jp/e/ ) or RENGO's web site ( http://www.jtuc-rengo.org/ ).
Best Regards -
Former Moderator
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From: Denver CO
I don't have a perspective on this lockout, I have facts:
1) Call it a l ockout if you want but the lockout was only done because the union had instititued a work slowdown that had crippled the docks anyways. Quotes from local truckers back this up - they used to pick up 4-5 times a day but since July when the slowdown went into effect they say it isn't worth going more than twice a day because there isn't enough stuff to pick up. The union says they haven't instituted a slowdown, that they are just following the safety regulations to the T. Funny how they didn't care about following those safety regulations to the T before their contract expired in July. Management has asked the union to agree to extend the old contract while mediation/negotiations are ongoing, to promise not to continue the work slowdown, and to sign papers to that effect. The union refuses to do so and therefore has forced management to institute the lockout.
2) This union is a freakin joke. Many of the jobs are structured such that TWO people perform the job. One guy works four hours and then takes off and another guy works the second four hours of the shift. They are both paid for a full eight hours. They even have some people who's only job is to deliver donuts. That's it. They deliver donuts and leave. Let's not forget that these people are making on average significantly over 100k per year, with minimal education.
3) Management has offered generous raises in their contract proposals to the union. How many employers are giving nice fat raises in this economy?
4) The union is fighting management over long overdue new technology. They are worried over losing jobs if the new technology is implemented. Management has GUARANTEED that not one union job will be lost - they say if there isn't enough work they'll pay the people anyways, for life.
This is freakin' ridiculous. Many people are losing their jobs because these overpaid loser drug addict alcoholic dock workers are on a power trip. I don't see how anyone can defend them. You can talk about unions in general all you want but this specific one sucks.
1) Call it a l ockout if you want but the lockout was only done because the union had instititued a work slowdown that had crippled the docks anyways. Quotes from local truckers back this up - they used to pick up 4-5 times a day but since July when the slowdown went into effect they say it isn't worth going more than twice a day because there isn't enough stuff to pick up. The union says they haven't instituted a slowdown, that they are just following the safety regulations to the T. Funny how they didn't care about following those safety regulations to the T before their contract expired in July. Management has asked the union to agree to extend the old contract while mediation/negotiations are ongoing, to promise not to continue the work slowdown, and to sign papers to that effect. The union refuses to do so and therefore has forced management to institute the lockout.
2) This union is a freakin joke. Many of the jobs are structured such that TWO people perform the job. One guy works four hours and then takes off and another guy works the second four hours of the shift. They are both paid for a full eight hours. They even have some people who's only job is to deliver donuts. That's it. They deliver donuts and leave. Let's not forget that these people are making on average significantly over 100k per year, with minimal education.
3) Management has offered generous raises in their contract proposals to the union. How many employers are giving nice fat raises in this economy?
4) The union is fighting management over long overdue new technology. They are worried over losing jobs if the new technology is implemented. Management has GUARANTEED that not one union job will be lost - they say if there isn't enough work they'll pay the people anyways, for life.
This is freakin' ridiculous. Many people are losing their jobs because these overpaid loser drug addict alcoholic dock workers are on a power trip. I don't see how anyone can defend them. You can talk about unions in general all you want but this specific one sucks.