fear of flying
[QUOTE=Wisconsin S2k,Jan 25 2006, 10:13 PM] Actually:
http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id=2...523X00653&key=1
this one lightning severed 2 of the 4 elevator cables (whatever those are) but it didn't cause any trouble:
http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id=2...408X00474&key=1
heh.
http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id=2...523X00653&key=1
this one lightning severed 2 of the 4 elevator cables (whatever those are) but it didn't cause any trouble:
http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id=2...408X00474&key=1
heh.
I assumed that when he asked about loss of control, he didn't mean loss of the airplane part. You lose the tail end of the airplane, bend over and kiss your butt goodbye. (Unless you are on Lost, where you have a safe water landing and swim to shore with a bunch of pretty girls)
Originally Posted by CoastieTX,Jan 26 2006, 11:41 AM
In the simplest terms, the vertical stabilizer gives the plane directional stability. Another way to say this is that it stabilizes the plane about its yaw axis. If you were to look at an airplane from above and push a pin straight down through its center of gravity, the pin would become an axis (the yaw axis) about which the plane could be rotated to the left or the right, which would make the plane's nose rotate to the left or the right.
In flight, you want the plane's nose (and fuselage) aligned with the plane's direction of travel, and this is what the vertical stabilizer does. To explain how the vertical stabilizer accomplished this job, consider the following: Suppose some disturbance causes the plane's fuselage to become misaligned with the plane's line of travel. Instead of the vertical stabilizer being orientated parallel with the air flowing past it (as would be if the fuselage was pointed in the plane's line of travel), it now is orientated in such a way that it presents a portion of its side surface area, or face, to the airstream flowing past it. This gives the airstream flowing past it a surface area on which to push, and when this happens, the vertical stabilizer is pushed back into its original position where it is aligned with the airstream (and plane's line of travel). The vertical stabilizer becomes more effective by either: 1. increasing its surface area, or 2. moving it a greater distance from the plane's yaw axis, which gives the vertical stabilizer more leverage (a longer moment arm).
Attached to the rear (trailing edge) of the vertical stabilizer is the rudder, which is hinged and moveable. Of course, sometimes we want to move the plane's nose to the left or right to change direction of travel, and this is accomplished by the rudder.
When you ask what happens when you lose vertical stabilizer control, I'm assuming you want to know what happens when you lose control of the rudder. If you lost vertical stabilizer control, that would probably mean the vertical stabilizer (and with it, the rudder) became detached from the plane's fuselage. Without these componets, a traditional airplane would lose control about its yaw axis, tumble out of control and either (depending on airspeed) break apart or return to mother earth in one piece most ungracefully.
If you lost rudder control, depending on the situation, enough control could still exist to fly and land the plane. In the event of a jammed rudder in the neutral position, the plane could still be turned using only the ailerons on the wings, but the executed turn would be sloppy, or "uncoordinated." If the rudder jammed in the left or right position, causing the plane to constantly turn, using asymetrical thrust (independently operating the left and right engines on the wings), asymetrical drag (independently operating the left and right flaps/slats/spoilers on the wings), and ailerons might overcome the plane's turning tendencies. If the rudder was jammed in the fully deflected position, these options might not be sufficient to cancel out the turning effect of the jammed rudder but a landing could still be attempted.
All things considered, there's worse things to lose control of than a rudder, because you still have options at hand to control the situation. Losing something like the horizontal stabilizer (used for ascending and descending), however, is an entirely different matter, as that Alaskan Airlines MD-80 crash into the ocean off the California Coast a while back illustrates. That wasn't even a "controlled" crash into the water; rather, a near supersonic, somewhat inverted dive straight in...
In flight, you want the plane's nose (and fuselage) aligned with the plane's direction of travel, and this is what the vertical stabilizer does. To explain how the vertical stabilizer accomplished this job, consider the following: Suppose some disturbance causes the plane's fuselage to become misaligned with the plane's line of travel. Instead of the vertical stabilizer being orientated parallel with the air flowing past it (as would be if the fuselage was pointed in the plane's line of travel), it now is orientated in such a way that it presents a portion of its side surface area, or face, to the airstream flowing past it. This gives the airstream flowing past it a surface area on which to push, and when this happens, the vertical stabilizer is pushed back into its original position where it is aligned with the airstream (and plane's line of travel). The vertical stabilizer becomes more effective by either: 1. increasing its surface area, or 2. moving it a greater distance from the plane's yaw axis, which gives the vertical stabilizer more leverage (a longer moment arm).
Attached to the rear (trailing edge) of the vertical stabilizer is the rudder, which is hinged and moveable. Of course, sometimes we want to move the plane's nose to the left or right to change direction of travel, and this is accomplished by the rudder.
When you ask what happens when you lose vertical stabilizer control, I'm assuming you want to know what happens when you lose control of the rudder. If you lost vertical stabilizer control, that would probably mean the vertical stabilizer (and with it, the rudder) became detached from the plane's fuselage. Without these componets, a traditional airplane would lose control about its yaw axis, tumble out of control and either (depending on airspeed) break apart or return to mother earth in one piece most ungracefully.
If you lost rudder control, depending on the situation, enough control could still exist to fly and land the plane. In the event of a jammed rudder in the neutral position, the plane could still be turned using only the ailerons on the wings, but the executed turn would be sloppy, or "uncoordinated." If the rudder jammed in the left or right position, causing the plane to constantly turn, using asymetrical thrust (independently operating the left and right engines on the wings), asymetrical drag (independently operating the left and right flaps/slats/spoilers on the wings), and ailerons might overcome the plane's turning tendencies. If the rudder was jammed in the fully deflected position, these options might not be sufficient to cancel out the turning effect of the jammed rudder but a landing could still be attempted.
All things considered, there's worse things to lose control of than a rudder, because you still have options at hand to control the situation. Losing something like the horizontal stabilizer (used for ascending and descending), however, is an entirely different matter, as that Alaskan Airlines MD-80 crash into the ocean off the California Coast a while back illustrates. That wasn't even a "controlled" crash into the water; rather, a near supersonic, somewhat inverted dive straight in...
I had someone in a PM explain a lot of it to me as well. Between the two, I have a much better understanding.microsoft flight simulator doesn't do it much justice. lol
Originally Posted by VoIPA,Jan 26 2006, 01:33 PM
OK, so it might sever a cable or two, but that's why every critical system is redundant, sometimes in triplicate or more.
Also note that there were NO injuries in any of the incidents listed above.
Also note that there were NO injuries in any of the incidents listed above.

A fear of flying is a fear of the unknown and a fear of not having control over a situation. Many people are afraid of flying because they don't understand it.
When you think about how many commercial airliners and charter flights are in the sky right now (THOUSANDS) and how many crash even in one day (USUALLY NONE), the chances of dying in an aircraft accident is rediculously low. There may be 2-3 significant airline accidents in a year. The amount of annual commercial flights conducted in the US alone is well into the millions. Aircraft are built with redundancies.
I've been flying for 14 years and have over 2,000 hours. Small planes, big planes and a few in between. I just came back from a two month deployment flying over Iraq. We flew over 30 missions in two months. That's flying every other day. To pilots, it becomes second nature. It's our job and we're trained to deal with emergencies. I know it's hard to believe, but we really don't want to die in a crash either.
When you think about how many commercial airliners and charter flights are in the sky right now (THOUSANDS) and how many crash even in one day (USUALLY NONE), the chances of dying in an aircraft accident is rediculously low. There may be 2-3 significant airline accidents in a year. The amount of annual commercial flights conducted in the US alone is well into the millions. Aircraft are built with redundancies.
I've been flying for 14 years and have over 2,000 hours. Small planes, big planes and a few in between. I just came back from a two month deployment flying over Iraq. We flew over 30 missions in two months. That's flying every other day. To pilots, it becomes second nature. It's our job and we're trained to deal with emergencies. I know it's hard to believe, but we really don't want to die in a crash either.

Ok so some of my confidence has been restored in the fact that it seems like Pilots are well trained.
So how about the mechanics that work on the planes? What kind of training do they go through? How often do they actually work on a plane doing maintenance? Does someone double check their work? Does any particular airline seem to be more strict when it comes to guidelines for these kinds of things?
So how about the mechanics that work on the planes? What kind of training do they go through? How often do they actually work on a plane doing maintenance? Does someone double check their work? Does any particular airline seem to be more strict when it comes to guidelines for these kinds of things?
I work with a furloughed American Airlines pilot (he's our company pilot now). He once told me that when people ask him as they're boarding his plane if it's safe, he replies. "Not really. I sometimes wonder why I risk my life every time I fly." They usually don't ask any more dumb questions after that.
(Not that your questions are dumb, mind you.
)
Commercial airline pilots are VERY well trained. In fact, many are retired military pilots who are used to reacting to emergency situations.
(Not that your questions are dumb, mind you.
) Commercial airline pilots are VERY well trained. In fact, many are retired military pilots who are used to reacting to emergency situations.
Originally Posted by Saki GT,Jan 25 2006, 05:28 PM
As ar as airlines go, I tend to stay away from Northwest and Continental - their fleets are on average over 20 years old, so the planes have a lot of hours and structural stress on them. Overall though, any domestic carrier's planes will be safer than other carriers since the FAA has regulations regarding how long a plane can fly in the US. These older planes end up flying in other countries for many many more years.
Aircraft No. in
Type Fleet Orders Options
777-200ER 18 2 --
787 -- 10 5
767-400ER 16 -- --
767-200ER 10 -- --
757-300 10 7 --
757-200 41 -- --
737-900 12 3 --
737-800 96 25 6
737-700 36 15 19
737-300 48 -- --
737-500 63 --
The oldest jets they have right now are the 737-300 and 500 series. In fact, according to this website, aside from JetBlue, Continental has the youngest average fleet age at 7.35 years. Continental is one of the best in the business, in my opinion. They are one of the few that are still hiring pilots right now, which says something.
http://www.airsafe.com/events/airlines/fleetage.htm
Now Northwest, I won't disagree with you there. I'm not a big fan if NWA.
As far as old airplanes go, the US Military is probably the masters at using old aircraft. Most of the KC-135's I fly were built between '56-63. You think 20 years is old? Try 50 years old and they plan on using KC-135's for at least another 20 years. 20 years is actually not that old.
Commercial airline pilots are VERY well trained.
OK, so it might sever a cable or two, but that's why every critical system is redundant, sometimes in triplicate or more.
Run the "redundant" systems next to each other and guess what -- they all go with a bang. People are lazy and companies are cheap.
Wis.I don't enjoy flying but I do fly ~70x / year for work. It's kind of like getting on a bus to go to work.
Don't worry about it - if it's your time - it's your time.
More people die in their bedrooms than on planes.







