Yeah I agree, I think a modeler would be great for 8ball's son. Another big advantage for the budding guitarist is that the modeler amp lets him try out lots of different sounds and effects and experiment and find out what he likes. Rather than when I was a kid and "trying a new tone" meant spending hundreds of dollars on a new amp.

I haven't heard of the Axe FX before.. Just looked it up, it sounds pretty slick.

Oh yeah, and a decent tube amp is freakin heavy. My Mesa is probably ~90 pounds, my Rivera more than that. My Line 6 POD is a pound, maybe two. Pod, cables, pedals in a backpack, guitar in hand, it's easy to get around. Even a "portable combo amp" like my Mark IV is hard to move around and get into a car's trunk.

 

if i were to buy an amp now i would get a 10" or 12" tube amp, and mic it to the PA system. i hate the sound of solid state. as a disclaimer i will say that i've never used a tube amp before...but that is what i would try next.

i'd say if your kid's good (and a good kid) then i'd say it wouldn't be *that* bad of an idea to get better stuff rather than in between. i bought my own guitar and amp when i first started (13...saved up all summer from caddy money), but damn it would've been nice to have had nice equipment after the first few years. as it stands, i wasn't able to purchase a nice guitar until after i graduated college (bought myself an SG after i started getting some nice paychecks)...and now as a working stiff i hardly ever play. high school is when an upgrade would've been the most useful. but actually i rented an amp when we played our hs talent show...guess that's an option, too.

kinda like in hockey, once you get past a certain point...having the best skates and stick do make a huge difference. shots go where you want them, passes go exactly where they are supposed to go, you can skate as fast as you want, make that turn as fast and as clean as possible. it's like that with music too, i think. when your stuff is good/sounds good, you play better cuz it sounds good, and in turn you will sound even better!

my exp: 14 yrs/2 electric/1 acoustic/3 amps...all shitty solid state

 

Everybody's advice in here has been pretty spot-on with my opinions as well. I especially agree with Mindcore. In my band days, we played with tons of different gear over the years but always went back to a tube stack especially with the type of music we were playing [same as your son] as well as a lot of heavier stuff [Metallica, Opeth].

That being said, nowadays since I no longer play seriously anymore, I bought myself a Line6 Spider 2 75 watt amp just to play around with at home and it wails. It has tons of options, decent set of effects and assuming your son isn't playing any arenas, has tons of power. It'll never be quite as warm as any of the tube stacks I had before, but it'll definitely get the job done and I think it'll be exactly what your son is looking for. And regardless, since he's getting a new shiny amp that he can finally tune himself and keep everything dialed in to his playing style, he'll be thrilled regardless of what he gets I'm sure. Plus, for less money, your son could always pick up a good set of pickups and change the sound a TON just by installing those.

Oh, and since everybody else threw this in, my guitar experience:
approx. 10 years playing/10+ electric guitars [whole buncha ESP's, 1 Ibanez, 1 Gibson Les Paul Standard and 1 PRS]/3 tube stacks [Marshall and Mesa] and 1 sweet ass 6 amp little box to start on way back when

 

Sorry to be late to this party, but I mostly agree with Mindcore DESPITE doing everything in the OPPOSITE manner.

Before I keep yapping, it's worth noting that guitar is instrument #5 for me. I'm a former Music Teacher, who still plays Horn professionally. Like you, I trust most of what the dedicated guitar players say in here.

I have a VoxVT50. I love it for what I paid ($300 something - I don't remember now). It gives me a lot of tube response, but with the caveat that the tube (a 12AX7) is only in the pre-amp. The back-end still doesn't have that room-blooming effect even a fly-weight 5w Tube Amp will give.*

I'm a fan of the Vox Modelers, but with the full disclaimer that I play a lot of Retro-tinged Indie.** If he's covering a lot more "heavy" music, the Line6 does well. For better or for worse, the Line6 spider does a better job of eeking out the mid-90's midrange-laden grungy tones. It also does the Marshall-stack crunchies just fine.

My only nod to the VoxVT series is that my VT50 (and I believe the VT100) have the ability to dial back the output stage. The nice thing is, full tone, but with a last-ditch volume break. GREAT for practicing. I don't know whether the Line6 Spiders have this. . .

As Kremlin and others were leading to, while he is young and fooling around with what he likes, the modeling amps are FAR AND AWAY the way to go. As he progresses, he'll more-than-likely narrow it down to 1 good tube amp, but will still want a modeler (POD/pedal/sw-based-pedal) to take care of those "must-have-sounds." If he continues playing a variety of classic rock, he'll probably just continue to update the modeling chain.

As Kremlin noted - a well setup guitar made of decent wood and well-grounded electronics will go a lot farther than just throwing money for fancy-pants-$$$$ guitars. I have a Reverend Jetstream 390 and it will go tetes-a-tetes versus any Fender American up to 3x it's cost.***

SO:
-Line6 for him, VOX for me (but I'm weird)
-Pedals are always there for the clean channel (as Kremlin said)
-Get to know your local GOOD luthier and get the guitar set-up correctly (if it hasn't been already)


*If he starts recording, investing in a ~$200 5w tube amp is not a crime at all. HIGHLY reccommended.
**Funny with the VOX, the Beatles-style tones, Brian May tones and Pink Floyd tones are REALLY easy to dial in. Frankly, had I known then what I know now about my playing style and inclinations, I'd have just saved for a Vox AC-15/AC-30
***Some people HAVE to have a Fender or a Gibson. I didn't. This thing is so indie, it could wear tortoise-shell glasses and slack off on it's own without me playing it. I love it. http://www.reverendguitars.com/


Mindcore: I have roadies, and they're incompetent. They could F up a bowl of cereal.

 

OK, again thanks for the continued insight. After doing my internet research, I think I'm narrowed to modeling amps from Line 6, Vox and Peavey. Each seems to have good and bad, Peavey is throwing in a free footswitch (thanks to the tip Kremlin) and Vox has a $50 rebate. Next is to take a trip to guitar center to check out these three in the flesh so I may have some add'l questions once I get back.

 

Just got back from guitar center, which answered many questions but raised some others. Here is the long and short of things:

Peavey Vypyr - I checked out the 75w ($300) and 100w ($400). The good - decent sound, wide range of effects, decent user forum on the web, free pedal ($100 value but only w/100w amp), mp3 input, record/loop 20 seconds of sound. The bad - panned for poor build quality and durability (switch gear did feel cheap), no real preset sounds and/or references to real amps/bands/songs.

Line 6 - I checked out the 75w ($300) and 120w ($400). The good - huge range of preset sounds/bands/songs, very good tech/forum area, mp3 input, record/loop 14 seconds of sound, general satisfaction for quality. The bad - sounds more artificial compared to Peavey & Vox, somewhat confusing interface to dial in sound, no current 'deal'.

Vox - I checked out the 50w ($400). The good - clearly the best sounding of the 3, ability to produce a variety of sounds but without the tricks/gimmicks of the others 2, very good reputation and build quality. The bad - most expensive of the 3 ($100 more and less raw power), no mp3 input, no record/loop, heaviest of the three (may be a good thing as related to quality but tough for a 15 year old to lug).

So this is where I stand on the eve before xmas eve. I've pretty much ruled the Peavey out - too much concern over long-term (hell, even short-term) quality issues. And I'm torn between the Line 6 and Vox. If it were me, it would be Vox hands down. But for a 15-year old, all the tech toys may outweigh sound quality (Line 6 has a killer optional pedal).

OK, axe-men, I open this up to the floor for discussion (a mere 24-hours before my dead-line).

 

You can add pedals, you cannot subtract funky sound.

 

Yikes, down to the wire.

Ok.. the Line6 sounds out of the box usually blow. However, if you set it up and tweak a little bit there, a little bit here it has the potential to be "90% there" to the real things.

It took me a long time to get my pod set up to sound good.. maybe that's why I like it and forget what they're like stock.

Yes, they have some great floor boards for it, but they can be pretty expensive.

I'm not all that familiar with the Vox, besides having one of their 15 watt tube amps. It sounds amazing, and its a rock. The modeling side not so much.

Dare I say either one will probably be a good bet. And I'm sure your son will be happy regardless.

For the Vox, 50 watts of solid state power ain't a whole lot, but for a basement jam, I'm sure it will cut it. For a show, he'll have to stick a mic in front of it to run through the PA.. of that I have no doubt.

The only other argument I have is that unless he's a Queen fan, I'm not sure if he can point to any of his "heroes" that use Vox amps.

Not to say that Line6 is any better.. but it just "might" have more of a cool factor. Hard to say.. I haven't been a kid for a long time.

So to reiterate.. My vote Line6, but which ever you choose you're alright.

 

Line 6 can sound awesome

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=llvSMuJ650c [/media]&feature=related
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tfsa5VxJp58 [/media]

Thats my Buddy Arlo and thats his choice for an amp.

 

Hmm I had no idea about the Peavey quality issues, good thing you found out before buying. It's a shame, because I've heard very good things about the sounds out of it.

I agree with MindCore again. Line6 is the king of the hill in the modeling amplifier market with lots of history, support, and community. I think the sounds that came pre-dialed in on my POD suck, but plugged into my crappy little practice amp and with some time spent tinkering with it, it sounds very impressive for the dollar. I found the pre-programmed sounds to be very overprocessed -- it used to take tons of expensive gear to get that high gain, chorus, reverb, compressed, digital delay aka Whitesnake sound, so it was a big point to show off that a little cheap-ish box could deliver it. To give any modeling amp a real try, dial in a sound that has no effects, and emulates a Fender tube amp starting to break up. Try it at high volume and low volume (older modeling amps sounded harsh at high volumes) to see if it is consistent. Try turning the volume knob on the guitar -- you should be able to get a good clean tone without touching the amp, then turn up the volume knob on the guitar to get more distortion.

I haven't played with the Line 6 AMPS too much (other than the Vetta) so I am running on the assumption that that they are of pretty comparable sound to the POD.

Another option.. Buy a gift certificate and take your son to go try out the amps himself. Yeah, it's not as cool as getting an awesome gift under the tree, but guitars and their gear are personal and emotional purchases -- he might disagree with you about what he wants.

I would REALLY try to steer him towards modeling amps though.. When I was 15 all I wanted was a big 4x12 stack that said "Marshall" on it and had those mystical "tubes" inside. I wish I could go back in time and kick my own ass.

If the weight of the Vox amp is an issue, you can look into getting a seperate head/cabinet instead of the combo. I chose to get the Mesa Mark IV combo amp because of "portability" but when the amp weighs 90+ pounds it would be nice to have a small but heavy head and a big, less heavy cabinet.