Hey everyone, I just graduated with honors (BetaGammaSigma aka Top 10% of Biz grads) from the University of Washington Business School with my BA in Business, with a concentration in Finance.

Now i've been interviewing with lots and lots of companies, and im pretty disappointed at what im finding. A lot of rebadged sales jobs, paper pusher work, and boring work. Many of the positions im finding all have stressed the fact I worked at Nordstroms for the past 5 years more than the fact I have a degree and a great mind for analytical & research abilities.

Now I want to go and get an MBA (I applied to 5 schools and got shot down by them all due to lack of full time post grad work experience), so I know I have to work for at least two years, then apply for an MBA in International Business, and then once im done with that I can hopefully get into the role that I'd ideally want (ex-patriated US Business Unit manager or consultant in Europe, especially Poland since im fluent in it).

My dream job is to get into the role of helping shape the Strategy, Finances, and Operations of an International company which is growing and expanding into new markets. Now it seems like I cant find anything using my undergrad degree that will help me really get closer towards a position in that.

I was hoping, since most of the people on this board are older than me (I'm 22 fresh out of college), that you have experienced this or seen it, and for any recommendations you could give me.

Right now all I have going for me is I got a job offer tendered the other day at a Market Research firm in Seattle as a Project Manager/Account Manager. They started me lower than I wanted, but after talking to them I got them to agree for a reevaluation in 3 months for a raise instead of 6 months. I figured on average i should make about $40k (if I hit most of my bonus goals in their middle range) a year starting, which is what most business grads start out at. But i dont have my heart really set into it, im just taking it since I can't stand working at a mall dept. store (Nordstrom) anymore, especially since I'm done with college while the rest of the people there are either younger, or old nitwits who never did anything with their lives.

Sorry for the long winded post, but if you managed to read through all that, what are your recommendations for a smart, fresh business grad trying to make their stake in the world? Looks like I'm either gonna have to move to New York, Chicago, or Los Angeles if I want to get into a company that'll let me do international business eventually, but does anyone have any ideas on career paths and also how I should approach applying again for MBA programs every year until I finally get into one.

thanks,
Martin

 

If you want to go to b-school, here are my suggestions:

1) Buy and read "How to get into the Top MBA Programs" by Montauk
Amazon Link

2) If working in industry, work for 4-5 years before applying. Schools are looking for more and more work experience now. Even consultants and bankers are staying in their jobs for longer periods of time

3) Differentiate yourself - do lots of volunteer work, sit on the board of a non-profit, coach a sports team, start a club

4) STUDY FOR THE GMAT (I am a dumbass and took this part WAY too lightly)

5) Get excellent recommendations from people you trust - make sure they are senior enough to matter, try to get people from the schools you are applying to write them

6) Decide if you want to go to a National (Top 30 school) or Regional program - if you want a top program, you'll need to be absolutely focused on getting in

7) Budget properly for travel to see schools, take GMAT classes, pay for applications

8) Work your ass off at work, gain the right experience (lead teams/efforts), make a name for yourself

9) Learn hardcore quant skills - cost/resource/whateveryoucando modeling, finance

10) Learn qualitative mgmt skills - know how to work with groups/teams

11) Don't show up to work drunk, high, or naked

Sounds like a lot, but over the course of 4 years, its really not that big of a deal. It sounds like you know what you want out of a business education, so you're way ahead of most other applicants (e.g., "I want to get an MBA so I can work for a bank and make lots of money").

 

tech skills help, too. I set myself apart by using my programming skills from majoring in computer science for 2 years. Really, try to acquire ANY skills that make you valuable. My job is almost 100% safe as only I can administer and modify all of the complex models I've implemented. I built a database that our company uses to do our annual budget...people feed in headcount at various salary levels, overtime, merit, and vacation assumptions along with other expenses and rolls it all up in any way someone wants it in 10 seconds. This is a $2Billion in revenue per year company and it is MY model that does their expense.

the moral: set yourself apart.

the strategy/forming direction jobs at big companies are almost all held by top program MBAs or ivy league grads. The job you're thinking of taking doesn't seem all that bad. 40K is probably appropriate for new grads, too.

The prospects of getting into a top30 MBA school are very slim unless you are extraordinarily smart. GMAT is a very large part; if you can't break 650 I'm pretty sure you won't get in no matter how shiny the references. 650 is like top 10% or so...and that is 10% of GMAT test takers, not the population. For everyone who gets into a good bschool, there are 20+ who did not. I did very well without any significant preparation (top 2%). I went with a regional school as they offered me a full scholarship. I have a good job now and live comfortably. I have thought of trying for a top25 school in the future; if I can repeat my GMAT score, my chances are well above average. My company may pay for it and give me a leave, too.

You don't have to go to a top25 mba school to do well. Ultimately it is a function of luck, skills, and ambition. If you go part-time, many companies pay for it. Remember a top25 program is well over $100K in tuition and lost wages...not to mention living.

 

If getting into a top MBA school is anything like law school then all they should care about is whatever boosts their rankings such as undergrad gpa probably, and GMAT score. Personal statement, extra curriculars amount to maybe 5% and at most 10% of entry.

Personally if I was an adcomm for a certain school I'd only look at whatever helped my school boost its rankings. Unless of course you do something phenomenal like win a Nobel prize or cure cancer.

I was in the same boat as you as a business major, now I changed to poly sci. Eventually after I graduate next year I am going to law school. Much more interesting type of work, at least for me. Naturally it's gonna cost over 100k most likely but at the end of the day I'm doing work I enjoy and the salary isn't bad either.

 

For the most part, I agree. However, don't be discouraged to apply IF you can build a good story for why you should be admitted. You'll have 2-4 years of working to figure out how to do that. GMAT matters, grades matter, BUT your record at work, essays, interviews, and your recommendations do, in fact, count tremendously. I know someone who was accepted to a Top 3 MBA program this year with sub 600 GMAT scores. She was able to differentiate herself from the plethora of other management consultants/i-bankers applying by creating a good story (by story, I don't mean fictional account of experience. Instead, "story" means being able to show progress throughout a career), having shining recommendations, and interviewing well/writing good essays.

The above account is truly an outlier, but shows exactly how much of a crapshoot MBA admissions are.

True, depending on industry. If he/she wants to do corp. strategy or finance, a top MBA is the best place to start. For Management Consulting and i-banking, a top MBA is absolutely necessary.

Again, I agree, but would put essays, extra curricular, and recommendations closer to 30%.

B-school is an enormous investment in time and money, so take it very seriously. The long-term payoff, however, is huge.

 

Honestly, I think you'll have to compromise a bit when it comes to your first job. No company is going to put a new grad in the center of its international strategy formulation. IMO you should take a position that has room for advancement and work your way up from there. If you don't like the position, then you can always change jobs after you've racked up a few years of experience.

As for business school, that'll depend on a lot of factors. Your chances of admission should definitely be better after you've gained some relevant experience. If you're going for a top-ranked MBA program, then you'll want to study your ass off to ensure the highest GMAT score possible. If you're not going for a top-ranked program, though, then I wouldn't sweat it. The GMAT is not that tough of a test and you should be able to get a sufficient score without killing yourself.

And don't worry, you're not alone. Many new grads are a little disappointed at their job opportunities after just getting out of college. Aim high, but be realistic about what positions you can obtain right now, and in the long run, you'll do fine.

Good luck man.

 

I laughed when I read that line.

Welcome to the real world. Watch "Office Space" if you haven't seen it before. I work in what most any aerospace engineer would call one of the "Cream of the Crop" jobs in the industry and even then, I spend about 90% of my time dealing with paper pushing, boring meetings and general BS. Sitting in my non-descript cubicle at work as I type this. Making a lot of $$$ to goof off.

 

This will probably be more useful to people still in school.

Most of my Bschool buds from college did finance/whatever related internships every summer during college. Besides being some smart people, the summer experience directly related to the stuff they were learning really helped them to get jobs right out of school.

Some went to Ford and the rest of the Big 3. Some went to Citi, JP Morgan, etc. They all make good money. Some started near the 6 figure range.

It seems crazy that you need real work experience when you're applying for your first job out of school, but that's just the way it is in a lot of fields today. I know when all the engineering companies came to Ann Arbor to recruit new grads the competition was stiff, but if you didn't have that summer internship experience you were basically looked off because they knew they'd be able to find someone just as talented who had that work experience as short as it might have been for just a handful of summers.

If you are having a tough time finding the job you want then consider finding a job that you think you can grind out for a year or two so that you can get better(?) experience under your belt to showcase during interviews to land those good jobs.

 

He probably didn't get the memo.

 

I love it! Me too. Arent we engineers a bunch of jags?



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