Ahhh... OFFICE SPACE.... A classic! There are soooo many movie quotes that I apply to my everyday life at work. "I just don't feel like working today". "OK but you'll be sorry". "Assclown".

OfficeSpace ranks in my all time top 5 movies. I watch it at least once a month and show people my Oh face afterwards...

 

Matt, I couldn't agree with you more there.

I hate to sound patronizing but as an executive on a hiring binge, I'm looking for people with experience. A degree is important, good grades are important, but anyone looking to hire a fresh college grad is looking for impressions of maturity, enthusiasm, and maybe long term stability. Sounds like you're fairly certain of what you want to do, but I can tell you being an expat may be great for a short while, and gets old really quick.

Now that I've gotten to where I wanted to go - executive position; staff that scurry to my requests; more money than I can ever spend because I work 12~15 hours a day, 6 days a week; travel perks all over the world when I go on business (5 star hotels, First Class cabins, driver/car waiting for me wherever I go) - I am finding that it's the simple things in life that counts: my wife's welcoming home hug, watching my son grow up, checking out the Off-Topic forum on S2Ki.com, etc.

You have a good 30 years ahead of you - my best advice to you is build your skills, experience, judgment, and business know-how on a solid foundation. There is NO shortcut other than working your ass off, anyone else telling you different will never be as successful as you want yourself to be.

Oh and one last thing: always compare yourself with someone who's more successful than you and try to learn from them.

Sorry if I sounded patronizing, but I've seen hot-shots in my department come and go, the ones that really shined were the B+ staff that prove themselves over and over. There are lots of things they don't teach you in college and B-school, and most supervisors like me are not the hand-holding type.

 

they're all right, getting a dream job out of school is almost impossible outside of nepotism. Get into something that can lead somewhere. Market research is a good start, if you want to do marketing.

When you start, learn new things OUTSIDE of your immediate job. If you only know your job, you're more likely to be shown the door when the axe falls. As someone with little experience, it will be your SKILLS that set you apart. If you do market research, database skills will be very valualble as you will be able to figure out how to get what you need to solve your company's problems. That would make you a star.

I know just about everyone writes that they have Access skills on their resume. I would guess that, on average, 1-2% of BA-level business-type employees have any working knowlege of it at all. I know that in a finance organization of several hundred people, two people including myself have advanced skills...and I taught the other guy. The CFO knows it, too, so when the need comes to analyze large amounts of data, it's me. Excel is a valuable analysis tool, too, but since it is a 32bit program, it only can do 32bit addressing, which leaves only 65,536 rows. That's a pretty glaring weakness when you work in finance. It is in market research, too.

Now, I'm not saying you have to do databases. There are many other things that add value, too.

 

Dude you design shredders and a month ago you were bitching about your boss smoking in the office. Did you win the lottery? For what it's worth I know execs at fortune 100 companies that don't have the benefits you describe. My only question left is which ass cheek must I kiss you work for you.

You have zero experience. No offense, but I would not hire you to clean my bathrooms. Your degree is a step in the right direction -- but you must understsand that above all else you must also pay your dues. Accept a job that is not ideal, learn at that job (believe it or not you will) in a couple years enroll on a post grad program -- in a few years search for your ideal job.

Note -- you don't *have* to do what I just said. I did not -- but then I was very very very very very lucky and I kissed the right asses and knew the right people from the get go.

 

[QUOTE]1) Buy and read "How to get into the Top MBA Programs" by Montauk

 

Yeah great, thanks so now I know that I'm not even worth to be a janitor huh. All I'm saying is that when I look at myself, my job, and my current situation, I try to see what am I doing here to move myself towards my goal. I see so many people in their early twenties (most of my dead beat friends from HS who didnt make it into college) who now are working at the same $10-12 an hour job an assistant manager in the mall somewhere, or doing construction work and hard labor who arent going to move anywhere with that. Whenever I look at myself and any job or schooling decisions I do, I say "where is this going to lead me, and how will i keep progressing towards my goal."

My dream job and goal is to get into corporate strategy and international business. But now that I've graduated college and am out interviewing with the real world, its just tough to even find the most sliver of a chance of a position that is going to help me gain experience for that even since all of the stuff out of college is sales, account managers, and auditors. Now i know most people have to dredge through those low end positions for a while and then move up, but I was just seeing if anyone has any other ideas or recommendations for finding a position that helps you get into more strategy and operations than sales and basic accounts. I feel like I will be basically wasting my next 3-4 years of my life doing a job that isnt what I want to devote my life and career to until I get into an MBA program finally. And I dont want to have that time wasting feeling since like I said before, I am constantly trying to push myself and pursue my goals and want to see constant progress.

And for the person who said being an ex-pat is fun for a little then gets old, I'm fluent in Polish and love the country, the culture, and my entire family is there, so if I can get a job being paid a nice American wage back in my homeland where the dollar is 3.5:1, then thats even better. Especially since its the fastest growing economy in Europe, just joined the EU last year so there's lots of foreign firms entering it, and there is a ton of potential for growth in the country. If not there, I wouldnt mind working anywhere else in Eastern Europe though. Thats why I actually took the foreign services exam in April to see if I could get into a spot with the US Embassy department as an Economic Affairs officer. Now doing that job would be something that I'd like doing, would further my career goals towards the path I want, and it would be a ton of fun while I'm young and not tied down by a wife, kids, house etc.

I'm basically seeing the only jobs that will lead me towards my career goals being post-MBA positions, so im sort of venting, but also asking for advice so that I am doing something meaningful for myself and interesting to me while gaining work experience to get into an MBA program. Thanks a lot though for your support and recommendations, and I'd like to hear any other thoughts and ideas you might have for career paths towards the sorts of things that I'm talking about. From my previous couple posts, I'm guessing you can start kind of seeing the kind of person i am, student i am, and my persona somewhat. And seeing as how most of this board has people who have worked for a while and know what the real corporate life is like, getting your ideas, thoughts and opinions helps greatly since the only other real experienced people that I have to talk to are my profesors I had while in biz school for my undergrad.

 

I understand your frustration. I've been there. I got so fed up that I went straight into a MBA program. Since I got a 710 on the GMAT getting in was not really that hard. Was it the right decision? yes and no. I went the regional route with a nationally ranked regional program. I'm happy I did it as I have a good job now. I eventually want to go into program management, but that is something you have to work for a long time. If I had waited maybe 2 years, I could have done a top25 program. That option is still open (many execs have 2 MBAs btw).

 

2 MBAs? Is that even possible? I'm not saying you're wrong, I just haven't seen anything like that before so I'm curious.

OBM - You're still young and clueless in the business world (not a knock, just reality). Take the time to learn a business (any business) and gain real-world experience. Everything you've done up to this point is truly kids play in terms of what employers care about.

The first few years out of school are extremely frustrating. That is the truth. You just have to make the best of it. I was in the same position, with the same attitude and thought process as you about 5 years ago. I've since realized the value of learning an industry/business.

Trust me, you'll be suprised at what is required of you, and how often failure IS an option while at work. Remember, in school you have professors and other students working in a collegiate, congenial atmosphere. At work you have bosses who hate you, co-workers who'll screw you, clients who will give you a hard time for the sake of busting balls, and the list goes on. Its not as easy as you think.

Also, the average age of Top Tier MBA program students is 27-28. The only people who go back after 2-3 years are i-bankers and consultants. I work for a consulting firm and am only now being pressured to go back (after 5 years) because people are seeing the value in having as much experience as possible before b-school. Talk to some people who've been, and who are working now. They'll tell you that you get a lot more out of classes when you can contribute with real life experience, not cases out of textbooks or unproven theory.


Another reason to work for a few years - you're going to want recommendations from job managers, not professors. In all honesty, nobody give a shit what college professors have to say. They haven't seen you working for 16 hours/day, schmoozing clients, using analytical skills to solve problems, leading teams, etc. Its very, very different at work than it is in the classroom.

Whole different ballgame.


Honestly, you sound like a smart guy who knows what he wants at work. That's always the best way to go into a work situation. You just need to slow down a little bit. Think of it this way:

You'll work for ~40 years of your life.

You should probably gain 4 years of professional experience before b-school.

That's only 10% of the total time you'll work over your lifetime, so don't rush into it.

 

I'm guessing here's referring to the "standard" MBA and the executive MBA.

 

schools overated somtetimes at our age, I have my BA and MBA also 23 and possibly going jor a JD later down the road if I ever get an employer to pay for it. UW was an ok school not bad at all but when your TAs do most of your grading and your 100 and 200 level classes have almost 1200 kids in it.....Then your upper level classes still have like 50 people more or less gimme a break...UW does look good on your resume though here in WA but alot of kids have it since theres almost 50,000 enrolled.

I've been interviewing for some good positions and yes your education gets you in the door but what gets you the job is your experiance which is tough at our age. At a recent interview I met this other guy who was 26 a bit older than me and he was fresh out of grad school also and finally reazling that the people beating him out during interviews are the ones with 5 years of experiance or more in the industry. He'll eventually get a job also but don't expect some dream job jsut waiting for you. College degrees espicially are now over rated. Everyone has one and they are so easy to get. Pretty much equivalent to high school degrees now so it would do you well to go get an advanced degree. That degree is def helping me with getting interviews.

I also have a freind who graduated UW business school theother year. He got sick of school and just went to entry level management int he area. Those jobs are very easy to find. The thign is hes working easily 60 hours a week maybe more bringing in 30k a year but hes happy and he'll eventually start moving up and getting a raise pretty soon in his 1st year.