With all due respect, what blame does the US consumer bear?

I find it disingenuous to blame "crazy taxes and costs of business" for the rise of Walmarts featuring nothing but the most cheaply made products. Walmart at one time hyped their "Made In America" products, but having found that products made elsewhere were cheaper, Walmart stores are now filled with products sourced elsewhere, mainly China. And US customers still shop at Walmart. So was it "crazy taxes" or US consumers? Obviously if "Made In America" once motivated Walmart customers, it no longer does.

If you buy a cup of coffee at a local cafe, the person working the counter gets a few bucks to spend. If you mail-order your coffee from China, nobody in your community sees a dime of that and therefore you aren't feeding your local economy. If your local cafe then closes due to lack of business, it is dishonest to blame "crazy taxes and costs of business."

 

i agree. if after 9/11, people continued to spend as they were, we would probably be fine right now, or at least better than we currently are. this goes further than the local coffee shop, even buying foreign goods helps the US out.

what i was referring to was the costs that the government puts on american companies to do business... tax, workers comp, insurance, property tax for buildings... it is much much cheaper for a company to build stuff over seas, this is why companies are doing it.

apple isnt having their products built in china because they want to sell cheaply-made products, they are doing it because it costs them too much to have them built in america. same reason that chevy has vehicles made in mexico. the government keeps raising taxes and requiring businesses to spend more to operate, and all it does is push them away.

CA is now trying to push amazon to tax online purchases... it makes no sense, what am i getting taxed on when purchasing online? it has nothing to do with this state.

 

first off most people who own companies are not millionaires. secondly those who are millionaires spend a lot of money. I work in the special event industry, and if rich people didn't spend their money I would be out of a job. As an example I just worked on a 60th birthday party for a very wealthy man. I don't know the exact figures, but it must have cost at least $1.5 million. But it directly employed over 100 people, and indirectly another hundred. That is keeping American money in America fueling our economy. If he was a Chinese businessman he would take all his wealth and spend it in China and I wouldn't see a dime of it. Now I'm going to spend some of that money on his products and when I work on his 65th birthday I will get some of it back. We need rich people, taxes aside they drive our economy one hundered times more than you or I.

 

Apple has their products built in China because it's cheaper. Of course they want to sell cheaply-made products. I'm not sure how you could argue they don't while at the same time argue "it's too expensive in the USA."

The government that "keeps raising taxes and requiring businesses to spend more to operate" is a democracy. Unless you are advocating that a communist regime is preferable for business, you might consider that the taxes you pay and the regulations that increase the cost of doing business are there to keep this country a place people want to live in.

If you really have a problem with paying taxes, start voting for folks that will strip police, fire, and school budgets. Organize your local community to protest any infrastructure improvements like bridge and road repair. Run for office on your "Stop Spending Money On Improving Our Lives" platform. California isn't a dictatorship.

Come to terms with the fact that the costs of doing business in the USA are a result of two centuries of effort at making this country a better place to live. Or emigrate to a place where they don't spend money on silly luxuries like local government, police, fire, education, etc.

Historically, nations have dealt with differences in production costs on imported goods with tariffs and import taxes. In the US there has been this pervasive idea that we should eliminate tariffs and import taxes to "stimulate economic growth." But you have pointed out the real result of that policy - manufacturing leaves because such policies force them out. It's not "taxes" but the lack of any concern for parity, any consideration for the differences in production costs around the world, that makes it difficult for manufacturing companies to compete.

But we already know you reject such knowledge and logic. You don't understand how your state can think it is entitled to sales tax on goods you buy just because you bought them over the internet instead of locally. News flash - if you and everyone else didn't buy over the internet from out-of-state websites to avoid paying sales tax, the state of California wouldn't have the financial issues it currently has. You are robbing your own state of revenue then whining at the result. Serves you right.

 

i meant cheaply made as in the quality of craftsmanship, if a company could have americans build their products for the same rate that they have china build their products, i dont see why they wouldnt.

even with the high taxes i pay, this country is not getting any better to live in, only worse. i plan to leave in 20 years if things dont start getting better. I often consider what my taxes go to, in hopes that they help make the country better, but then i read about high ranking police officers making $500k per year, the projects in san francisco getting "free" wifi, BO trying to give people "free" health care, $40k spent on a statue of an owl for the iraq embassy... the taxes that you and i pay are wasted. im not sure why i have to pay for my internet, and someone elses, or my health care, and someone elses.

its mind boggling that my public servants get paid and average of 100k per year, and then contract their job to someone getting paid 40k per year... why not just pay the contract company to do all of the police work and cut the spending over 50%? why are teachers getting paid 80k to work 8 months out of the year and then complaining? 10k per month isnt exactly bad wages for a job that you "love".

i really dont understand how the state thinks its entitled to any money that i spend online, or anywhere for that matter. when i go to work, i get paid a certain amount of money, that money gets taxed by the government. so lets say i made 100 in a day, the government takes 40 of it for a tax, now i have 60 dollars to spend, so i go shopping and buy a pair of pants for 50 dollars, i get to the register, and my total is 55 dollars, where did that extra 5 come from? another tax, on that same money that was already taxed. how is my money getting taxed twice?

another example of over taxation would be that i go buy a car with my already taxed money, and i get taxed on the car like in the above example, then i drive down the road that i helped pay for, using my double taxed gas, then i need to pay a toll/ tax to drive on that road that my taxes went to, then i make a stop to go get taxed on a cup of coffee, and come out to see that ive been taxed for parking on an area of the road that i helped pay for that some ass clown decided i shouldnt park on.

the average city spends about 65% of its income on its public safety employees. how is that not insane to you? the biggest cost of your money is your servants, and there are people out there that are willing to, and do do it the job for cheaper.

im not robbing my state when i buy things from out of state, my state is robbing me when i dont.

 

:facepalm: I don't even know where to start.

I fail to see why you think the whole world is out to get you simply because you are asked to pay for the goods and services you directly benefit from.

For starters, it sounds like you want the USA to be a communist regime like China, so we could all work for the same wages and have the same lack of protections as the Chinese worker. You don't have any clue why production costs in China are lower than the USA, do you? Have you ever even been out of the county? How about out of California? Or even the USA? It's not the same everywhere. And by your posts you seem to think it is, except you believe that they have lower taxes and yet the same standard of living everywhere else in the world.

Why would you wait 20 whole years to go to your better life elsewhere? Why not leave now if it is so much better everywhere else and your taxes are an onerous burden here? Quit your job, sell your house, and move to perhaps China which sounds like the environment you'd prefer, a place that doesn't over-tax it's population and is more friendly to business.

Secondly, you fail to grasp why you are obligated to contribute to the running of your state. It's been the same system for thousands of years - the governing body demands a portion of all transactions to help pay for the administration and regulation of the market. Whether you buy something online or at a local store is irrelevant to your state's laws, but you and everyone else pretends you are immune to taxation on the internet. Hence your state working to get online retailers to collect and remit the taxes you owe.

You're going to gripe that it's your money, but even with something as simple as buying gas you are benefitting from the regulation of the pumps which ensures you get all the gas you are paying for. It adds a bit to the cost of each gallon, but it prevents people from actually ripping you off. And the tax on gas also pays for the roads you drive on with your gas. Why should people who don't drive as much as you pay for the roads you are using?

Your state has sales taxes to pay for the services your population demands. My state doesn't tax groceries, medicine, or clothing, but I've found states like California and Illinois - high populations with major metropolitan centers, tend to tax clothing. I'd guess they are trying to get people to contribute according to means, as revenue doesn't scale the same as costs. IOW, if you can afford $60 for pants, buy them. If you can afford $100 for pants, buy them. But don't complain that you make enough money to spend $60 on pants but would have preferred $10 pants. It's your money and you chose to spend it. People who choose to spend more of their money will pay for more of the market support structure, i.e. government regulation and oversight protecting you in the marketplace.

The concept of a tax on transactions is not new. You are paying for the maintenance of the economic environment that allows you to have recourse if your $60 pants fall apart the first time you wash them. Or if you don't get all the gas you paid for, or if someone actually does rob you.

And I am curious to know what precisely you would prefer your city's budget pay for, if not public safety employees? What do you want the money to go for? What ratio would you find acceptable?

 

Welcome to the Global Economy.

 

Freedom isn't free, it's market price.

 

And the invisible hand has a sandpaper like touch