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Originally Posted by PrimoGen,Mar 12 2009, 06:49 AM
they deisgned the enzo specifically to do just that. it is an attempt to bring some of the race safety elements into their public consumption vehicles.
it is based on the principle of Plastic Vs Elastic damage (no, not the actual substances, rather definitions of types of energy absorbtion and dispertion)
Plastic damage looks like the race cars and dragsters you see wreck on the track where parts fly off all over the place and the car basically disintegrates leavign the cage the driver is in. During this type of damage, potential and actual energy is dipersed away from the driver. the race car team and driver are not concerned with the beauty of the car in this situation, they want to survive
Most of the worlds consumer cars are designed to perform Elastic damage in a crash in an attempt to save as much of the vehicle as possible. The energy is absorbed into the chassis and carried through the car (and often into the driver/passengers etc). we as vain consumers do not want to replace an entire car or side of the car at the event of just about any collision. we dont have the budget to replace entire chassis and panels either. That is why auto producers have to find a way to make the cars as safe as possible while also trying to retain the integrity of the car.
the Enzo is probably the best example of a car designed for the public while retain as much Plastic damage capabilities as possible.
If none of us were concerned with simple bodied cars, road noise, cages and replacing a car that costs say 1100.00 (if we could produce them that cheaply) we could produce much safer cars that more people would survive crashes in. this will most likely never happen in the real world though...we simply want too much out of our cars for that to be a possibility.
it is based on the principle of Plastic Vs Elastic damage (no, not the actual substances, rather definitions of types of energy absorbtion and dispertion)
Plastic damage looks like the race cars and dragsters you see wreck on the track where parts fly off all over the place and the car basically disintegrates leavign the cage the driver is in. During this type of damage, potential and actual energy is dipersed away from the driver. the race car team and driver are not concerned with the beauty of the car in this situation, they want to survive
Most of the worlds consumer cars are designed to perform Elastic damage in a crash in an attempt to save as much of the vehicle as possible. The energy is absorbed into the chassis and carried through the car (and often into the driver/passengers etc). we as vain consumers do not want to replace an entire car or side of the car at the event of just about any collision. we dont have the budget to replace entire chassis and panels either. That is why auto producers have to find a way to make the cars as safe as possible while also trying to retain the integrity of the car.
the Enzo is probably the best example of a car designed for the public while retain as much Plastic damage capabilities as possible.
If none of us were concerned with simple bodied cars, road noise, cages and replacing a car that costs say 1100.00 (if we could produce them that cheaply) we could produce much safer cars that more people would survive crashes in. this will most likely never happen in the real world though...we simply want too much out of our cars for that to be a possibility.
I would assume that they just used high yield strength materials to make a stiffer chassis, which tends to 'fracture' more than 'yield' I also think they were thinking more about weight savings, which mean they would drop their factors of safeties to accomodate it.I seriously cant imagine a ferrari engineer thinking 'hmmm how do I make this thing blow up so it takes away energy'?
Yielding low yield strength materials like steels take as much energy away from a crash as 'blowing up pieces'
and I think yielding low strength materials would be safer...less things flying around?
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From: Sun★Works
Originally Posted by ikeyballz,Mar 13 2009, 04:04 PM
Im not sure thats entirely true. I would assume that they just used high yield strength materials to make a stiffer chassis, which tends to 'fracture' more than 'yield' I also think they were thinking more about weight savings, which mean they would drop their factors of safeties to accomodate it.
I seriously cant imagine a ferrari engineer thinking 'hmmm how do I make this thing blow up so it takes away energy'?
Yielding low yield strength materials like steels take as much energy away from a crash as 'blowing up pieces'
and I think yielding low strength materials would be safer...less things flying around?
I would assume that they just used high yield strength materials to make a stiffer chassis, which tends to 'fracture' more than 'yield' I also think they were thinking more about weight savings, which mean they would drop their factors of safeties to accomodate it.I seriously cant imagine a ferrari engineer thinking 'hmmm how do I make this thing blow up so it takes away energy'?
Yielding low yield strength materials like steels take as much energy away from a crash as 'blowing up pieces'
and I think yielding low strength materials would be safer...less things flying around?
visit a ferrari shop and see that the enzo is designed to be seperated in two pieces since that is how they get to the drive line of the car and replace the engine.
then you might get the idea that they may have taken these types of damage into consideration when developing their cars.
I am no Ferrari expert or anything but..... I can read
you might want to read up on the physics of race car crashes VS. retail car crashes and concentrate on the imagery of some of these super car crashes (even at lower speeds) the ferraris show classic signs of plastic deformation = millions of pieces and parts of the car seperating and the car appearing to disintergrate...just like race cars do
you can poo poo my conjecture all you want. Is it really beyond your imagination to think that a team of engineers working for a company that has been at the forefront of just about every racing genere in the world (since basically its inception) would be deficient enough to exclude some "race" safety features that have been in place for years into some of their designs?
as far as yeilds are concerned and their absorbtion vs exertion rates, I cannot comment educatedly on that. what I can tell you is that cars that are designed to elastically deform will take ALL of the crash's energy and disperse it mostly linerally through the car starting with the chassis, then the internals and eventually the driver. Where a car that is designed to deform plastically with allow the crash's energy to break apart the car and quickly dissipate the energy in different directions away from the core of the car.
I am not saying the Ferraris are designed completely around this principle, what I am saying is that they were designed with that knowledge in mind and some elements of plastic damage and deformation of potential energy have been integrated.
Its just my educated opinion on the matter
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Originally Posted by ikeyballz,Mar 13 2009, 01:04 PM
I seriously cant imagine a ferrari engineer thinking 'hmmm how do I make this thing blow up so it takes away energy'?
and I think yielding low strength materials would be safer...less things flying around?
and I think yielding low strength materials would be safer...less things flying around?
Let the parts get away from the driver (passenger) area and make the crash surviable. This is standard practice in most forms of motorsport.
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From: Tampa
Rob, I've never heard of plastic and elastic "damage" before, but what I think you are talking about, plastic/elastic deformation, is a HUGE part of my Materials Engineering class.
There are two types of deformation: plastic and elastic. Elastic deformation occurs on a stress/strain graph linearly until it reaches it's Modulus of Elasticity, or yield strength. Plastic deformation occurs after the Modulus of Elasticity is passed, and arcs upward until the maximum tensile strength and then downwards until it finally breaks.
Stress = Force / Area
Strain = Stress / MoE = DeltaLength / InitialLength
This is pretty much what you are talking about.
This is why I missed Tilted Kilt last night, I had a test on this this morning
Reading this thread makes my head hurt... a lot of armchair engineering in here
There are two types of deformation: plastic and elastic. Elastic deformation occurs on a stress/strain graph linearly until it reaches it's Modulus of Elasticity, or yield strength. Plastic deformation occurs after the Modulus of Elasticity is passed, and arcs upward until the maximum tensile strength and then downwards until it finally breaks.
Stress = Force / Area
Strain = Stress / MoE = DeltaLength / InitialLength
This is pretty much what you are talking about.
This is why I missed Tilted Kilt last night, I had a test on this this morning
Reading this thread makes my head hurt... a lot of armchair engineering in here
