Pakistan is in
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From: newport beach
Then let the Afghanis throw the Taliban and bin Laden out.
Please do not hold US foreign policy to a utopian standard, of perfection, one which would paralyze us and render us totally vulnerable to repeated terrorist attacks by inviting them.
We are facing an unprecedented threat. The terrorist organizations have a well structured presence not only across the Arab world, but in Europe and the US as well.
The threat that if we respond to this unbelievably grotesque terrorist attack on our people, we will invite further attacks, is another invitation to paralysis. We did not invite the first attack except by being American, democratic, sensually free (relatively), and a friend to other democratic people, including Israel. It is because we are American that we are intolerable to those with deranged minds or unquenchable hatred for our people, country, and way of life who think that the attack on the WTC was not only deserved, but the occasion for great celebration.
This is a culture war. I think Bush was correct in demanding that the world choose sides. There will be blood to pay, and it will include that of those who support terrorism. There has never been a war which did not see the shedding of innocent blood. That's why war is a horror. This is a war against the horror.
Please do not hold US foreign policy to a utopian standard, of perfection, one which would paralyze us and render us totally vulnerable to repeated terrorist attacks by inviting them.
We are facing an unprecedented threat. The terrorist organizations have a well structured presence not only across the Arab world, but in Europe and the US as well.
The threat that if we respond to this unbelievably grotesque terrorist attack on our people, we will invite further attacks, is another invitation to paralysis. We did not invite the first attack except by being American, democratic, sensually free (relatively), and a friend to other democratic people, including Israel. It is because we are American that we are intolerable to those with deranged minds or unquenchable hatred for our people, country, and way of life who think that the attack on the WTC was not only deserved, but the occasion for great celebration.
This is a culture war. I think Bush was correct in demanding that the world choose sides. There will be blood to pay, and it will include that of those who support terrorism. There has never been a war which did not see the shedding of innocent blood. That's why war is a horror. This is a war against the horror.
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From: West Mids.
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Moneeb
Maybe I should just shut the f@ck up.
Well...... If we can't discuss this with you Moneeb, we have no chance of any meaningful dialogue with the fanatics who hate us and have not embraced our culture and way of life as you have.
The authorities over here are now very concerned about a backlash against the Muslim Community, and rightly so. There will always be morons who seek to make the easiest targets the victim of their misguided and ignorant reprisals.
The Muslim Community, I have to say, do not help themselves at all. Their spokespeople speak of violence not being justified in any circumstances, and go on to say that a 'Holy War' is a real possibility if the West are not very careful. They certainly give the impression at least, that they condemn all violence not sanctioned by the holy state of Islam............ our retaliatory violence presumably.
Some of the loudest Muslim voices screaming "Holy War" on the streets of Britain belong to those who have been granted Diplomatic Immunity by this country, fearing for their very lives in their own country when they came here. I see no prospect of any common ground with these people whatsoever. Despite living among us and enjoying the freedom and priviledges we offer, they still owe their loyalties, if not to the homeland they fled from, to the total authority of 'Islam'.
How in the name of all sanity can these people hope to be accepted as British Subjects? They clearly cannot see the hypocritical double standard by which they conveniently live amongst us. I think there is great disquiet here at the attitude shown by many of the most influential Muslim community leaders in the face of this crisis. Like the U.S.A Britain is a multi-racial society which has had it's share of birth pains. A great deal of hard won tolerance and good will is at stake here.
If we can't talk to you Moneeb, how can we talk to a cloistered authoritarian culture thousands of miles away which is as diametrically opposed to our values, beliefs , and way of life as night is to day?
Maybe I should just shut the f@ck up.
Well...... If we can't discuss this with you Moneeb, we have no chance of any meaningful dialogue with the fanatics who hate us and have not embraced our culture and way of life as you have.
The authorities over here are now very concerned about a backlash against the Muslim Community, and rightly so. There will always be morons who seek to make the easiest targets the victim of their misguided and ignorant reprisals.
The Muslim Community, I have to say, do not help themselves at all. Their spokespeople speak of violence not being justified in any circumstances, and go on to say that a 'Holy War' is a real possibility if the West are not very careful. They certainly give the impression at least, that they condemn all violence not sanctioned by the holy state of Islam............ our retaliatory violence presumably.
Some of the loudest Muslim voices screaming "Holy War" on the streets of Britain belong to those who have been granted Diplomatic Immunity by this country, fearing for their very lives in their own country when they came here. I see no prospect of any common ground with these people whatsoever. Despite living among us and enjoying the freedom and priviledges we offer, they still owe their loyalties, if not to the homeland they fled from, to the total authority of 'Islam'.
How in the name of all sanity can these people hope to be accepted as British Subjects? They clearly cannot see the hypocritical double standard by which they conveniently live amongst us. I think there is great disquiet here at the attitude shown by many of the most influential Muslim community leaders in the face of this crisis. Like the U.S.A Britain is a multi-racial society which has had it's share of birth pains. A great deal of hard won tolerance and good will is at stake here.
If we can't talk to you Moneeb, how can we talk to a cloistered authoritarian culture thousands of miles away which is as diametrically opposed to our values, beliefs , and way of life as night is to day?
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From: NYC
And on a related note, the Taliban hypocrites are falling apart from the bottom up: http://www.portal.telegraph.co.uk/news/mai.../21/wafg321.xml
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From: Ft. Campbell
"Armed men are entering people's homes under the guise of checking to see if they have arms, are watching a film or listening to music [both banned activities]," said one resident.
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From: Havre de Grace, Maryland
IMO I think some of you are getting a little to offensive now. Please do not ruin a thread that has good intentions. Everyone has opinions and views to make, what the people should be doing is analyzing these view points, learn from them and form an opinion. Do not take them personal at heart and start lashing out at one another. If you deeply affended by someone's views you should disregard it and move to another thread or provide us all with some new constructive information that we could learn from. If you do continue on this path I am sure that the thread will be locked and deleted sooner rather than later.
Again, this my opinion. I will check back and see if the thread is back on track again. If it is not I am just going to move on. If you are in the mood to flame me, do not bother, I practice what I preach and just ignore it.
Again, this my opinion. I will check back and see if the thread is back on track again. If it is not I am just going to move on. If you are in the mood to flame me, do not bother, I practice what I preach and just ignore it.
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From: Los Angeles
2x6spd writes:
2x6, you are absolutely correct. This is unfair of me. I think what I have tried to express earlier is my sorrow and pain over the state of the common people in Afghanistan. For the U.S. not to respond to this terror would as you clearly point out only invite more devastation and destruction.
2x6spd writes:
What I have tried to say and what Sunchild paraphrased correctly, is that the Afghani people are a people whose spirit has been broken. For the common man, every day is a struggle to find enough to eat, to make sure that his family has shelter, clothing, and will survive till the next day. It really is a day to day struggle in an truly oppressive and dangerous environment. What can a people such as this do in the face of the terror of the Taliban and bin Laden?
2x6spd writes:
I agree completely. This is not a war against a nation or the people of Afghanistan or Pakistan but against a perverted corrupting idealogy which preaches hatred and intolerance. This perversion of Islam hijacks people from childhood were children are indoctrinated in madrassahs about how to hate the west and everything that represents it. Many parents leave their children in such "schools" simply because they know that atleast here their children will have food, shelter, and clothing. In one of his previous posts, Sunchild terms the concept of brainwashing "iffy" and suggest that free will should be able to prevent people from falling into the trap of fundamentalism. I respect his opinions but tell me, in a place where there is no outlook on the rest of the world and where you grow up being taught nothing but hatred and intolerance, how do you expect their society to develop? Am I suggesting that this excuses the actions of the terrorists? NEVER NEVER NEVER. All I am suggesting is that as you say, this is a CULTURE war against the perverted ideology of Islamic fundamentalism. It is only by understanding the roots of this ideology that we can attempt to combat it. This war cannot be won by just removing the Taliban (although that is a goal I dream of) or by just getting rid of OBL. It must be a long drawn out campaign to stamp out the roots of this fundamentalism. In my humble opinion, if this is not done, the threat to the west and the rest of the world remains.
2x6spd writes:
Well said and very true.
Cedric Tomkinson writes:
[QUOTE]The Muslim Community, I have to say, do not help themselves at all. Their spokespeople speak of violence not being justified in any circumstances, and go on to say that a 'Holy War' is a real possibility if the West are not very careful. They certainly give the impression at least, that they condemn all violence not sanctioned by the holy
Please do not hold US foreign policy to a utopian standard, of perfection, one which would paralyze us and render us totally vulnerable to repeated terrorist attacks by inviting them.
2x6spd writes:
Then let the Afghanis throw the Taliban and bin Laden out.
2x6spd writes:
This is a culture war.
2x6spd writes:
There has never been a war which did not see the shedding of innocent blood. That's why war is a horror. This is a war against the horror.
Cedric Tomkinson writes:
[QUOTE]The Muslim Community, I have to say, do not help themselves at all. Their spokespeople speak of violence not being justified in any circumstances, and go on to say that a 'Holy War' is a real possibility if the West are not very careful. They certainly give the impression at least, that they condemn all violence not sanctioned by the holy
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From: West Mids.
Moneeb:
Thanks for the 'heads up' on 'Jihad'. With regard to your 'identity crisis', whilst I can certainly understand your concerns for your nation of birth; so long as you remain the caring, reasoning person that you obviously are, I see no danger of any long-term personality disorders in prospect for you.
Thanks for the 'heads up' on 'Jihad'. With regard to your 'identity crisis', whilst I can certainly understand your concerns for your nation of birth; so long as you remain the caring, reasoning person that you obviously are, I see no danger of any long-term personality disorders in prospect for you.