Originally Posted by Quick2K,Mar 2 2009, 12:07 AM

I still think that the most likely result of pulling your own concealed weapon on someone who's got a gun trained on you is the death of one or both parties. If someone's going to shoot you, they're going to shoot you and I doubt that in most situations you would have to time to reach for a weapon, load it, turn off the safety, aim and fire before you were shot yourself. Now, by attempting to "protect yourself and the ones you love" you have gotten yourself, or your companions, killed, even though you probably would have just lost your wallet and had to suffer the convenience of canceling credit cards and going to the DMV for a new license.

Some people seem to fantasize that they will be in a bank when a couple of armed robbers order everyone to the floor. You pull your concealed weapon and fire. Unless you manage to drop all the assailants with neat head shots (perhaps you've been practicing on Counter-Strike), someone's likely to end up dead. Maybe you, maybe the perp, maybe some innocent mother or daughter that is accidentally caught in the cross-fire.

Is having a concealed weapon a net social benefit, here? Or is it better to just allow the perps to make off with the Federally insured contents of the bank registers?

Having a gun in your home makes it three times more likely that you or someone in your family will be murdered by a family member or intimate partner. In 1997 the FBI Supplementary Homicide report found that for every one instance of someone using a firearm in self defense (concealed or not), 43 people were killed in gun violence. More than 50% of all gun deaths are suicides, and in a household with a gun, a person is almost five times more likely to die by suicide than a person living in a gun-free home.

I don't wish death by firearms upon anyone, and your household firearm is more likely to inflict pain or death upon you or a family member than upon an unknown assailant.

That is why I said that carrying a weapon is like taking your shoes off at the airport. It may make you feel safe and powerful, but it doesn't actually improve security - at worst, it could make you less safe. Look at what happened with Plaxico Burress and his (albeit illegal) concealed firearm.

I understand that legal or not people will carry, but I don't want my society to be overrun with weapons.

Originally Posted by Quick2K,Mar 2 2009, 12:07 AM

I understand that legal or not people will carry, but I don't want my society to be overrun with weapons.

Originally Posted by Quick2K,Mar 2 2009, 12:50 AM

If anything, my worry is that if a state allows concealed carry, the criminal will assume that his victim is armed and act accordingly - ie, he'll be much more trigger-happy than if he assumes that he possesses superior firepower over his presumed-unarmed victims.

Originally Posted by beanseff,Mar 3 2009, 02:16 PM

why can't you have a concealed carry permit in cali, they need tax money like every other state
i have a concealed carry permit that i have to pay taxes on it, why? to keep illegal guns in the hands of the criminals which pissed me the f**koff
why else would you need a gun?????
the government never made sense to me, i guess it never will

Originally Posted by HowardZinn,Mar 10 2009, 08:54 PM

This kind of stuff isn't helping your cause: 10 shot dead in Alabama
http://www.upi.com/Top_News/2009/03/10/At_...35321236733463/

Murder rates in the US are higher than most other developed country, like the UK, Ireland, Australia, Italy, France, New Zealand etc. But a lot of Americans LOVE their guns.

Personally I'd feel safer if I had less gun owners surrounding me. Carry concealed weapons and who can snap at any time, get into an argument with their spouse at the cinema and pull their gun, or have road rage and pull their gun, or a parking dispute and pull their gun, or get fired and in a moment of rage pull their gun at work.

It might make you 'feel' like a big man, carrying that concealed weapon, but it doesn't make the society any safer, increasing gun density in the urban areas does not decrease gun violence, that's a lie of the NRA.

Edit: and don't pull out stats which indicate that the US has higher gun ownership than somalia/uzbekistan/Iraq/pakistan and is safer. Compare murder rates with other first world civilised democracies and the difference is obvious.

Originally Posted by HonCBRf2,Mar 11 2009, 06:20 PM

Then move to england or Australia....

Originally Posted by Quick2K,Mar 2 2009, 12:50 AM

If anything, my worry is that if a state allows concealed carry, the criminal will assume that his victim is armed and act accordingly - ie, he'll be much more trigger-happy than if he assumes that he possesses superior firepower over his presumed-unarmed victims.

Originally Posted by JmanS2k,Mar 11 2009, 07:26 PM

Why would anyone want to assault someone they assumed was armed when they could just assault someone they assumed wasn't armed? Many criminals may not be too bright, but most of them have the common sense not to **** with someone they thought would be packing when they could just as easily rob someone they assumed wasn't and avoid taking fire all together. And I've never heard of criminals robbing anyone because they thought they might have a bigger gun than the other guy.