What has become of America?
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From: Signal Hill, SoCal
Originally posted by Lips2000
Because a school says the Pledge of Allegiance which contains the phrase "under God" doesn't mean the school, ergo, the Goverment, is sponsoring that particular religion. In this case, what God is the pledge reffering too???? You have every right, as an American, to participate. If you feel intimidated, than sorry. Butch up! Your self esteem issues are not mine.
Because a school says the Pledge of Allegiance which contains the phrase "under God" doesn't mean the school, ergo, the Goverment, is sponsoring that particular religion. In this case, what God is the pledge reffering too???? You have every right, as an American, to participate. If you feel intimidated, than sorry. Butch up! Your self esteem issues are not mine.
All the good things in my life (and all the really crappy things too) have been due to my own actions and not some unseen benevolent entity.My favorite proverb from my mother is "You made you bed, now lie in it!"
Over and Out, I am shutting up this time. No really I mean it!
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From: Signal Hill, SoCal
Found it..
In 1892 Francis Bellamy was also a chairman of a committee of state superintendents of education in the National Education Association. As its chairman, he prepared the program for the public schools' quadricentennial celebration for Columbus Day in 1892. He structured this public school program around a flag raising ceremony and a flag salute - his 'Pledge of Allegiance.'
His original Pledge read as follows: 'I pledge allegiance to my Flag and (to*) the Republic for which it stands, one nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.'
He considered placing the word, 'equality,' in his Pledge, but knew that the state superintendents of education on his committee were against equality for women and African Americans. [ * 'to' added in October, 1892. ]
Dr. Mortimer Adler, American philosopher and last living founder of the Great Books program at Saint John's College, has analyzed these ideas in his book, The Six Great Ideas. He argues that the three great ideas of the American political tradition are 'equality, liberty and justice for all.' 'Justice' mediates between the often conflicting goals of 'liberty' and 'equality.'
In 1923 and 1924 the National Flag Conference, under the 'leadership of the American Legion and the Daughters of the American Revolution, changed the Pledge's words, 'my Flag,' to 'the Flag of the United States of America.' Bellamy disliked this change, but his protest was ignored.
In 1954, Congress after a campaign by the Knights of Columbus, added the words, 'under God,' to the Pledge. The Pledge was now both a patriotic oath and a public prayer.
See the rest of the history here
http://www.vineyard.net/vineyard/history/pledge.htm
In 1892 Francis Bellamy was also a chairman of a committee of state superintendents of education in the National Education Association. As its chairman, he prepared the program for the public schools' quadricentennial celebration for Columbus Day in 1892. He structured this public school program around a flag raising ceremony and a flag salute - his 'Pledge of Allegiance.'
His original Pledge read as follows: 'I pledge allegiance to my Flag and (to*) the Republic for which it stands, one nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.'
He considered placing the word, 'equality,' in his Pledge, but knew that the state superintendents of education on his committee were against equality for women and African Americans. [ * 'to' added in October, 1892. ]
Dr. Mortimer Adler, American philosopher and last living founder of the Great Books program at Saint John's College, has analyzed these ideas in his book, The Six Great Ideas. He argues that the three great ideas of the American political tradition are 'equality, liberty and justice for all.' 'Justice' mediates between the often conflicting goals of 'liberty' and 'equality.'
In 1923 and 1924 the National Flag Conference, under the 'leadership of the American Legion and the Daughters of the American Revolution, changed the Pledge's words, 'my Flag,' to 'the Flag of the United States of America.' Bellamy disliked this change, but his protest was ignored.
In 1954, Congress after a campaign by the Knights of Columbus, added the words, 'under God,' to the Pledge. The Pledge was now both a patriotic oath and a public prayer.
See the rest of the history here
http://www.vineyard.net/vineyard/history/pledge.htm
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From: The BadLands
Nothing farther from the truth. Nothing condescending inferred. A wise man becomes wise from listening and hearing. An ignorant man just doesn't know or understand. Through no fault of his own. He lacks the knowledge and understanding necessary. That does not mean he doesn't have the capability, just the teacher. Everyone is capable of acquiring knowledge and understanding. Some choose not to out of blindness or bad experiences. Never-the-less they are ignorant. Stupidity, is the choice not to apply what they understand is right or correct. Again, this is not my place to judge but it is sometimes very recognizable.
Can you explain to me without a shadow of a doubt how all this came to be? Me neither! If this were the case then there would be no mystery to life and there would be no reason to grow beyond what is known. Remember, to learn about the unknown you must perceive it first as a true reality and possible. Remember Benjamin Franklin, Edison, Einstein, Wright Brothers etc. They believe in this and were not just dreamers, but people that perceived the unknown beyond what was seen, felt or heard. Can you explain the existence of your emotions and how do they originate?
I study all types of religions. There is only one true spirit which prevails above it all. Anyway, this is a a moot point. As an atheist you do not believe in the existence of anything beyond your own humanity, based on fact of existing text knowledge. To be a true achiest you must first have a basis of understanding of each man made religion, correct? Without this understanding then you would believe in a false assumption without true understanding. This holds true with anything. You are a graduate of USC so you know the value of true knowledge and understanding. In so doing, it does not come from false assumptions but continuous and vigilant study.
Does this make me better than you? Heavens No! Doesn't this mean we can't share and learn from one anothers ideas as long as they have a basis of fact? No! Does this mean that I'm right and your wrong. To some YES, to others like me NO! You have to remember I'm not responsible for you just me and those that I'm placed in authority over.
Religious zealots believe that their perceived way is the only way. Well frankly, they don't have a way! It doesn't belong to them. I pay homage and honor to the only one I know who has all the right answers. For the sake of discussion, I don't hold this above you nor below. I'm who God made me, and for that I can only hope to show the small amount of gratitude my feeble mind is capable of. I will show you the same kindness that I would show my enemies. I will always be willing to help and try to live in harmony with all those around me. I will protect what has been invested in me with my last breath of life. I will never hold true perfection in my hands or see it with these eyes or take it in my lungs or smell it with it's beautiful scent or touch it within this body, but who is anyone to tell me that it is not part of everything that I hold dear and true. Isn't freedom wonderful!
Cheers
Jeff
Can you explain to me without a shadow of a doubt how all this came to be? Me neither! If this were the case then there would be no mystery to life and there would be no reason to grow beyond what is known. Remember, to learn about the unknown you must perceive it first as a true reality and possible. Remember Benjamin Franklin, Edison, Einstein, Wright Brothers etc. They believe in this and were not just dreamers, but people that perceived the unknown beyond what was seen, felt or heard. Can you explain the existence of your emotions and how do they originate?
I study all types of religions. There is only one true spirit which prevails above it all. Anyway, this is a a moot point. As an atheist you do not believe in the existence of anything beyond your own humanity, based on fact of existing text knowledge. To be a true achiest you must first have a basis of understanding of each man made religion, correct? Without this understanding then you would believe in a false assumption without true understanding. This holds true with anything. You are a graduate of USC so you know the value of true knowledge and understanding. In so doing, it does not come from false assumptions but continuous and vigilant study.
Does this make me better than you? Heavens No! Doesn't this mean we can't share and learn from one anothers ideas as long as they have a basis of fact? No! Does this mean that I'm right and your wrong. To some YES, to others like me NO! You have to remember I'm not responsible for you just me and those that I'm placed in authority over.
Religious zealots believe that their perceived way is the only way. Well frankly, they don't have a way! It doesn't belong to them. I pay homage and honor to the only one I know who has all the right answers. For the sake of discussion, I don't hold this above you nor below. I'm who God made me, and for that I can only hope to show the small amount of gratitude my feeble mind is capable of. I will show you the same kindness that I would show my enemies. I will always be willing to help and try to live in harmony with all those around me. I will protect what has been invested in me with my last breath of life. I will never hold true perfection in my hands or see it with these eyes or take it in my lungs or smell it with it's beautiful scent or touch it within this body, but who is anyone to tell me that it is not part of everything that I hold dear and true. Isn't freedom wonderful!
Cheers
Jeff
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From: Austin
Excellent thread Mark!
I agree 100% with everything you said, and I have appreciated the different opinions and responses of the other posters as well. This is an excellent thread and I hope it isn't locked.
p.s. I don't want to feed your ego... but your awesome man! BTW, take care of Micky for me
.
I need to come to Houston and buy YOU a beer or two.
Soon... very soon.
John
--have fun and enjoy this beautiful weather.
I agree 100% with everything you said, and I have appreciated the different opinions and responses of the other posters as well. This is an excellent thread and I hope it isn't locked.
p.s. I don't want to feed your ego... but your awesome man! BTW, take care of Micky for me
. I need to come to Houston and buy YOU a beer or two.
Soon... very soon.
John
--have fun and enjoy this beautiful weather.
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From: FCUK
Guys, a very interseting and thought provoking thread. Well done for keeping it on topic and therefore not locked.
It is good to see that people can enter such a discussion with such opposing views and still remain civil to each other. May this continue on the whole of the board ....
It is good to see that people can enter such a discussion with such opposing views and still remain civil to each other. May this continue on the whole of the board ....
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