White Collar vs Blue Collar...
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From: Napa
Zeiss, some of your comments are off the mark. The latest stats I have are from 2003, (Newsweek) that says the richest 1% of taxpayers paid 25% of all taxes; The wealthiest 20% paid 68% of taxes! And that increased from 1979 when the 68% figure was 57%. Yes I would like to have the money they have left after taxes, but as a %, those white collar folks pay more.
Also, capital gains are 15%, estate taxes (inheritance) go up to 45% and stock options (which a lot of my clients get in Silicon Valley) are taxed at the top bracket you're in (up to 35%) And those percents are just federal.
Now, if you complained that it isn't fair that rich folks who live off dividends only have to pay 15% federal income tax on them, while you and I pay up to 35% on money we earn with the sweat off our brow, well I'd have to agree with you on that.
Also, capital gains are 15%, estate taxes (inheritance) go up to 45% and stock options (which a lot of my clients get in Silicon Valley) are taxed at the top bracket you're in (up to 35%) And those percents are just federal.
Now, if you complained that it isn't fair that rich folks who live off dividends only have to pay 15% federal income tax on them, while you and I pay up to 35% on money we earn with the sweat off our brow, well I'd have to agree with you on that.
Joined: Mar 2002
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From: Doh!!
Originally Posted by Ubetit,Jan 10 2008, 09:01 AM
It is just as bad in small business where the majority owner makes a ton more than the other employees or minority owners.
the worker makes money no matter what.
in almost all small biz, the owner works harder than any of his employee. it's a 7-day a week job. yet the risk of losing your investment is very real.
4 out of 5 business fail in the US after 2 years.
the risk justifies the pay.
it's a free country, you're welcome to start your own small business. If you succeed, you can get rich too.
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Joined: Oct 2000
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From: Nashville
i didn't read all of the arguements.....
i just think it sucks that the execs use the company to pay for extravagant shit that they otherwise would not buy / do
I would love to see how many times these same people have left 55% tips on their own dime or ordered $$$$ wine. it is only on the company $ and at the same time "we had a bad year"... blaaaa
i just think it sucks that the execs use the company to pay for extravagant shit that they otherwise would not buy / do
I would love to see how many times these same people have left 55% tips on their own dime or ordered $$$$ wine. it is only on the company $ and at the same time "we had a bad year"... blaaaa
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Originally Posted by Scot,Jan 10 2008, 05:35 PM
i didn't read all of the arguements.....
i just think it sucks that the execs use the company to pay for extravagant shit that they otherwise would not buy / do
I would love to see how many times these same people have left 55% tips on their own dime or ordered $$$$ wine. it is only on the company $ and at the same time "we had a bad year"... blaaaa
i just think it sucks that the execs use the company to pay for extravagant shit that they otherwise would not buy / do
I would love to see how many times these same people have left 55% tips on their own dime or ordered $$$$ wine. it is only on the company $ and at the same time "we had a bad year"... blaaaa
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From: Oh kwa tan zen wan
Originally Posted by 8D_In_Trunk,Jan 10 2008, 12:54 PM
I'm curious about your example(s).
Apprentices start out at ~ $35k (equiv to college grad) and hit ~$120k once licensed in about 4 years (slighty better than a middle level manager one would be promoted to after 4yrs at a low level position).
PLumbers do exceptionally well here in Jersey. Then you've got unioned construction workers who after reaching PM start to really rake in the duckets and get a healthy pension after only 20 yrs (some retire right at 38 and collect pension + start a small business).
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From: Oh kwa tan zen wan
Originally Posted by 8D_In_Trunk,Jan 10 2008, 08:24 PM
The only rare times I can think of where rank-and-file overtake execs is in Police/Fire/Public Safety. Basically jobs requiring a professional wage, but where their hours can exceed the commensurate pay rates of management.
Note what I said above.
In the case of Plumbers, Electricians, etc.,it's what the market bears. If it's too much, we go to plan B (read: the guys standing in front of Home Depot).
As I said (and I'll keep saying until I'm blue in the face), it's irrelevant to the point.
If a group of plumbers get together and form a company; then it stands to reason a few (one?) of the plumbers will run the company while the rest work.
Let's say a group of Electricians do the same.
The head of the Plumbers Inc. gets paid $800K a year. He feels that it's right to get paid that, because he's head of the company, and the company makes $XYZ Millions a year.
The head of Electricians Inc. gets paid $200K a year. He feels that it's right to get paid that, because he's out building the business from a desk, but ultimately his "product" is still with the rank and file plumbers making $35K-$120K a year.
Assuming Electricians Inc. makes the same as Plumbers Inc. (in this little case) Who's more right? Plumbers Inc.? Electricians Inc.? Both?
Note what I said above.
In the case of Plumbers, Electricians, etc.,it's what the market bears. If it's too much, we go to plan B (read: the guys standing in front of Home Depot).
As I said (and I'll keep saying until I'm blue in the face), it's irrelevant to the point.
If a group of plumbers get together and form a company; then it stands to reason a few (one?) of the plumbers will run the company while the rest work.
Let's say a group of Electricians do the same.
The head of the Plumbers Inc. gets paid $800K a year. He feels that it's right to get paid that, because he's head of the company, and the company makes $XYZ Millions a year.
The head of Electricians Inc. gets paid $200K a year. He feels that it's right to get paid that, because he's out building the business from a desk, but ultimately his "product" is still with the rank and file plumbers making $35K-$120K a year.
Assuming Electricians Inc. makes the same as Plumbers Inc. (in this little case) Who's more right? Plumbers Inc.? Electricians Inc.? Both?
These electricians make more money than our clothing buyers who are graduates from top tier schools.