zbrewha863

I have always been interested in filmography to some extent (bought some books, played around), but never really got into it. Then, by accident, I played the extended features from Death Proof by Tarantino, and hearing him talk about shooting the scenes the old way, with real cars doing real stunts, really excited me.

So yesterday the Groupon in my area was for the Performing Arts Center of Tallahassee, they have a 6 week adult acting syllabus with a variety of classes, and randomly they have a "Directing 101" 6-week program in it as well. With the Groupon discount it was $37 for all 6 weeks, so I figure I can't go wrong.

Today I just picked up a camera for my journey. Best Buy has the Canon HF-M30 on sale for $400 right now here, so I purchased one along with an 8GB Class 6 Kingston SD card. For the price, I don't think you'll find a camcorder that can shoot anywhere near the same quality, and it has options for adding microphones, flashes, lights, etc., so I'm pretty excited. Any thoughts about that purchase, please share. I'd like to know what the experts think. My research consisted of looking at a couple pro reviews, 5-10 user reviews, and some videos on Vimeo shot with that type of camera.

So Sunday is my first class, and the journey begins!

zzziippyyy

By your title I thought this was going to be a thread about you taking up a film camera. Not a digital video camera. sadly S2ki does not have a dedicated forum for video endeavors.

But regardless maybe someone who has expertise in that area will chime in and help you out. Enjoy what your doing though it sounds like fun.

Ted H

To be honest, $400 isn't going to get you very far. It depends on several things, however:

1. How quickly do you expect yourself to progress/how quickly would you like to progress?

2. What is your intention with this camera?


The biggest concern now, is that you purchased a flat-video recording consumer camera. 5 years ago, there would be some smaller stuff recorded on such a device, but now with the myriad of 35mm adapters on the market, and DSLR technology, no one is going to watch a flat video.

Flat --> 35mm has 2 general, main concerns from an amateur's point of view:

1. audience viewing

2. practice


on 1., if you have anything you intend to show, 35mm DOF is a must.

2. a 35mm setup is going to help you better understand the construction of your own scenes, and how the different layers--often multiple 2d slices (foregrounds, back, middles, etc) relate to the 3d composition of your film.

It's important to think about setting up a movie frame like a photograph--but then one needs to think about how to render it three dimensional. 35mm helps direction with DOF, but also helps stimulate one to figure out different ways to complicate the composition in favor of the film.


There are 2 directions that are generally gone in budget filming right now, and none of them are as budgeted as one might think, however they can be slowly acquired while you're learning.

DSLR
1. Pickup either T2i, 60D, 7D, or 5D, depending on your budget and feature needs. I'm sure everyone here could help you further if you end up making that decision.
about $800-$2500

2. Lenses. This can get pricey, consult someone here for specific advice. On a real budget, I'd pick up a 50 f/1.8, 35 f/2.0, and something longer.
think at least $500.

3. Support & stabilization system.
http://store.redrockmicro.com/

When all is said and done, a Cinema tripod mount will be $2,000-$2,500. This includes follow focus and matte box. You will eventually need these. Not necessarily immediately.

3b. Monitor. You'll almost definitely need a 7" field monitor. $400

4. Tripod. Video Head--don't cheap out. I'd recommend a manfrotto. Expect $600-2,000

5. Audio. DSLRS have horrible audio, you'll need something to record with. H1N is the cheapest most effective, followed by the H4N.

$100-$500 (+Any additional mics, though those should be sufficient to start)

6.** Camera motion. Up until now, you've got everything you need to keep a camera on a tripod. You should do that first. However, moving on... You can build your own PVC pipe rail dolly for under $100. Cheapest solution for professional camera moves. Jibs are purchasable for a wide variety of prices under $1,000. Steadicam systems are usually astronomical. $5,000 or more. Stay away from them for awhile.

7. Software. Are you experienced in anything like Final Cut Pro or Adobe Premiere?

About $5,000 + Editing Software.


35mm Adapter route: (This might make sense since you already purchased the $400 camera. I'm not as familiar with that model, if it's recording in high quality, and is shown to be compatible with an adapter, that might be your cheapest option at this point.)

1. Get Camera (Appears you have.)

2. Get an adapter mount system.

http://store.redrockmicro.com/

The Micro M2 is great if you can find one on sale. Their new M3 is phenomenal. (EOS EF Mount)

($1,000 - $2,000)

3. Now you're going to need lenses again, see previous suggestions.

4. You're still eventually going to need a Mattebox ($995) and Follow Focus ($595), but you could but that on the list for later.*

5. Still going to need a tripod. Same prices. Manfrotto. $600-$2,000

6. Audio: Not immediately as big of a problem as a DSLR. if there is a solid audio jack and audio level recording ability on the camera, think about buying a Rode mic. If memory serves that's $300 ish.

7. Same thoughts on camera motion.**

You could probably make out of it doing the basics for the adapter, and having spent $2,000.




I'd like to say that, no, I am certainly not trying to scare you, but this equipment is required for a reason--many of them, in fact. It's something to think about.

If you're buying right now for practice, and not final product, then I'd suggest doing this:

Get a used Redrock M2 adapter. Used or Refurb or Discount, etc.

If it does not come with an image flip, get a 7" Monitor that has integrated image flip. What kind of monitor you get depends on camera output options. if it has HDMI, Marshall makes a great HDMI monitor--that I believe has image flip--for $340-$500. Search Amazon.

Get the basic lenses.

Get a tripod.

$1,000 for M2, $380 for Monitor, $650 for tripod. + Lenses. Maybe just start with the 50 1.8... it's $100.




Hopefully you can sort through all this information and learn from it. If you know some or a lot of this, I apologize.

If you have any other questions, I'd be happy to help.

Good Luck!

zbrewha863

Thanks for the advice, yes eventually I will have to have all of that stuff plus a more "professional" style camera. But for now I'm just practicing, and I'll keep this camera as a backup when I go big.

One of my good friends, who is finishing up his MFA right now at SCAD, has his own film production company (with hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of equipment) and can lease me or get me all of the correct equipment. I'm pretty lucky in that sense.

As far as format, the camera shoots in H.264. I will explore the limitations of H.264 as I get more in-depth into editing, but honestly it can do everything I need it to do right now. It sees every object independently, so as far as layers of a scene there are really infinite layers in H.264. The limits as far as editing it would depend on the editing software.

What are your thoughts on sinking that amount of money into accessories for a camera I wouldn't use down the road though? That's probably $3-4k worth of accessories if I get nice stuff, and for that price I could go out and get a pretty sweet prosumer camera.

Ted H

It depends on what accessories you get. Many of them can be used for a variety of different cameras.

The 35mm adapter is adaptable to all sorts of cameras. About any hi-def ENG camera can be coupled to the adapter.

The rail support systems and tripods are all cross-platform.

The Redrock Mattebox and Follow Focus: cross platform.

The Monitor: depends on what you get, some have HDMI only, and will most likely be the best for what you're doing, many pro units use SDI, which won't function for what you're doing. Though there are ways to convert to HD SDI.

Lenses are a big investment. Pick the right brand that you can use now, and in the future. Nothing like getting invested in a certain lens type and finding you need to switch.

I use Canon lenses, and have for the past decade.

Pros: Great lens quality. Cross platform compatibility between DSLRs and 35mm adapters (make sure you get the EF type adapter, however).

Cons: It's not a "cinema lens." This means two things, which are things that you can learn to live with, both now, and for the foreseeable future: When you zoom, you change focus. You can't zoom and keep the same fixed point in focus. Additionally, due to Auto Focus (Which can and should be turned off), the lens focus drive turns a tad faster, making a FF (follow focus) all the more necessary.

#1 rule: Camera bodies are the worst investment. They will always change.

The real money that you invest into your equipment is the heavy duty adaptable stuff that can change as your platform changes.

Lenses, FF, Matte box, Rails, tripod, dolly, etc. Followed by monitor, audio.

Camera bodies change by the year. The other stuff doesn't exhibit the same significant changes.

zbrewha863

Hey, I just saw this. Great advice Ted, thanks a bunch!

What are your thoughts on shooting video with DSLRs? One of my coworkers shoots a lot of family video and edits quite a bit (total techie), he says that with DSLRs there is a problem with some kind of jelly focus if you pan or tilt too quickly. I see a decent amount of indie films and amateur-pro vids shot with DSLRs, so I wasn't sure if they just find ways to shoot around the problem or if I should stick to actual camcorders and move up the ranks there.

I'm thrilled to know that all of these things are transferrable. I will stick with Canon too, I love their stuff. My grandfather used Canon for about 50 years for his shoots, so it has a lot of sentimental value to me as well.

FWIW, here are a couple examples of videos shot with the camcorder I bought (not by me, just for reference). I love the video quality, right now the major cons of the camcorder seem to be horrible battery life (45 minutes on high res setting) and low flash memory (8 GB internal). These vids were shot in 60i @ 24 MB/s but uploaded at 720p, I can do 1080p so it can go higer-res if I need to.

http://vimeo.com/12472231

http://vimeo.com/12223908

http://vimeo.com/18752622

Ted H

DSLRs certainly have their drawbacks due to the CMOS sensor. That being said, there are plenty of great ways to work around these problems in order to achieve a look that surpasses most other (more expensive) platforms.

One of the most important things to avoid the "jelly" effect is having one of those support systems I mentioned earlier. Personally, I try to avoid handheld work with DSLRs. Having more weight on the camera helps the "jelly" problem a lot, but you're better off on some sort of full rig. (Or safely on a tripod.)

Family video would be very difficult to shoot on a DSLR, due to it's size, sensor size, focal range, etc.

Calamari

Congrats, its always a pleasure getting really into something.

I recommend this to you. lol