Brake options for turbo car, track & street
09-25-2018, 07:24 AM
#1
Brake options for turbo car, track & street
So, next year I'm finally taking my turbo S2k to the track. Bought it kind of recently, and I've done a autocross/track hybrid sort of thing once, that me and a couple of friends threw together on an old military air base.
Anyway, what I found was that yes, the rear brakes get super hot very fast, which I now know is pretty standard. Right now, I'm on Redstuff pads, and that's it. No ducting, OEM calipers and rotors etc.
But this winter, I'm looking at doing something to upgrade the brakes, but unsure what options there are out there, that isn't a $2000 AP Racing kit..
- What options are there for other calipers - I've read something about Acura calipers from some 2006 V6 model. Is that still a good alternativve? Any other, better/bigger OEM calipers that fit?
- For sure going to add some ducting/cooling to both front and rear, and braided lines
- New pads - tips?
- I will be on low offset 18" wheels and already have CG wide fenders, so fitting the wheels over the brakes shouldn't be a problem
Any help or info is appreciated!
Anyway, what I found was that yes, the rear brakes get super hot very fast, which I now know is pretty standard. Right now, I'm on Redstuff pads, and that's it. No ducting, OEM calipers and rotors etc.
But this winter, I'm looking at doing something to upgrade the brakes, but unsure what options there are out there, that isn't a $2000 AP Racing kit..
- What options are there for other calipers - I've read something about Acura calipers from some 2006 V6 model. Is that still a good alternativve? Any other, better/bigger OEM calipers that fit?
- For sure going to add some ducting/cooling to both front and rear, and braided lines
- New pads - tips?
- I will be on low offset 18" wheels and already have CG wide fenders, so fitting the wheels over the brakes shouldn't be a problem
Any help or info is appreciated!
09-25-2018, 09:02 AM
#2
Stoptech makes a well priced kit.
Realistically, to do this correctly, you need to shell out some money if you want a braking upgrade.
Junkyard options from a CTS-V, 04-09 TL 6MT, Or 04-08 RL exist. But they require fabrication, and none are really set up to work with the S2000's master cylinder sizing. There may also be limiting factors like pad choice and rotor sizing.
But...why don't you just try a good set of track pads on your stock brakes first? And then see if you need something else.
Redstuff is a LONG way away from a pad meant for track use.
Realistically, to do this correctly, you need to shell out some money if you want a braking upgrade.
Junkyard options from a CTS-V, 04-09 TL 6MT, Or 04-08 RL exist. But they require fabrication, and none are really set up to work with the S2000's master cylinder sizing. There may also be limiting factors like pad choice and rotor sizing.
But...why don't you just try a good set of track pads on your stock brakes first? And then see if you need something else.
Redstuff is a LONG way away from a pad meant for track use.
The following users liked this post:
sqd (09-26-2018)
09-25-2018, 12:22 PM
#3
Stoptech makes a well priced kit.
Realistically, to do this correctly, you need to shell out some money if you want a braking upgrade.
Junkyard options from a CTS-V, 04-09 TL 6MT, Or 04-08 RL exist. But they require fabrication, and none are really set up to work with the S2000's master cylinder sizing. There may also be limiting factors like pad choice and rotor sizing.
But...why don't you just try a good set of track pads on your stock brakes first? And then see if you need something else.
Redstuff is a LONG way away from a pad meant for track use.
Realistically, to do this correctly, you need to shell out some money if you want a braking upgrade.
Junkyard options from a CTS-V, 04-09 TL 6MT, Or 04-08 RL exist. But they require fabrication, and none are really set up to work with the S2000's master cylinder sizing. There may also be limiting factors like pad choice and rotor sizing.
But...why don't you just try a good set of track pads on your stock brakes first? And then see if you need something else.
Redstuff is a LONG way away from a pad meant for track use.
I get what you mean with just pads, but since we have cold, snowy winters here in Sweden, the car will be garaged from October to early April anyway, and the plan is to beef up things like brakes and cooling when I'm already planning some teardown of the car.
09-25-2018, 12:41 PM
#4
Hm, okay, I was under the impression that the TL alternative would be good with the master cylinder? Some fabrication is no issue though
I get what you mean with just pads, but since we have cold, snowy winters here in Sweden, the car will be garaged from October to early April anyway, and the plan is to beef up things like brakes and cooling when I'm already planning some teardown of the car.
I get what you mean with just pads, but since we have cold, snowy winters here in Sweden, the car will be garaged from October to early April anyway, and the plan is to beef up things like brakes and cooling when I'm already planning some teardown of the car.
The piston sizing of the TL-S brembo *might* be ok. But as mentioned...you'll run into some compromise with any of the junkyard setups.
With the TL-S brembos...you'll run into rotor sizing issues. That caliper accepts S2000 rotors...or some larger diameter rotors with around that same width. So your thermal capacity isn't significantly better. And you'll likely need to bore out the center of any non-S2000 rotor to accept the hub. So...no off the shelf replacement parts.
Point being that its better to buy a kit designed for the car. With easily available rotor and pad replacements that bolt on.
And with pads and rotors that increase thermal capacity as well as life span. As well as the fact that a Stoptech kit is robust enough that you can use a streetable pad compound...but still sustain repeated hard braking events at the track.
The following users liked this post:
sqd (09-26-2018)
09-25-2018, 12:46 PM
#5
The piston sizing of the TL-S brembo *might* be ok. But as mentioned...you'll run into some compromise with any of the junkyard setups.
With the TL-S brembos...you'll run into rotor sizing issues. That caliper accepts S2000 rotors...or some larger diameter rotors with around that same width. So your thermal capacity isn't significantly better. And you'll likely need to bore out the center of any non-S2000 rotor to accept the hub. So...no off the shelf replacement parts.
Point being that its better to buy a kit designed for the car. With easily available rotor and pad replacements that bolt on.
And with pads and rotors that increase thermal capacity as well as life span. As well as the fact that a Stoptech kit is robust enough that you can use a streetable pad compound...but still sustain repeated hard braking events at the track.
With the TL-S brembos...you'll run into rotor sizing issues. That caliper accepts S2000 rotors...or some larger diameter rotors with around that same width. So your thermal capacity isn't significantly better. And you'll likely need to bore out the center of any non-S2000 rotor to accept the hub. So...no off the shelf replacement parts.
Point being that its better to buy a kit designed for the car. With easily available rotor and pad replacements that bolt on.
And with pads and rotors that increase thermal capacity as well as life span. As well as the fact that a Stoptech kit is robust enough that you can use a streetable pad compound...but still sustain repeated hard braking events at the track.
09-26-2018, 10:01 AM
#6
Honestly I think the limitation of the stock brake system is the rotor size. The calipers give good bite but the issue is the rotors are easily prone to cracking due to the size. Bigger/wider directional rotors is ideal.
I bought the stopteck BBK, I love it and might be a little overkill for my current setup/driving habits but I like the confident braking.
I bought the stopteck BBK, I love it and might be a little overkill for my current setup/driving habits but I like the confident braking.
The following users liked this post:
sqd (09-26-2018)
09-27-2018, 06:35 AM
#7
The limitation is the rotor, front and rear. Total brake force will be limited by the tires, especially the front tires, and not the power.
The brakes heat up when used then cool down after braking completes. The energy transferred to the brakes is dissipated when they are off. The two factors or brake cooling and rotor heat capacitance (very little heat should reach the caliper, which is why brake fluids have relatively low boiling points). Changing the rotors can increase their heat capacitance. Brake ducts can increase the rate of cooling. The increased power will mean more speed down the straights to be dissipated by the brakes. As a new track driver, you will be braking to a lower corner speed, also increasing the amount of heat dissipated by the brakes.
Pads have different coefficients of friction. A higher coefficient allows more braking force for a given caliper clamping force/pedal force. Pads also have different temperature operating ranges. The pads also have different engagement and release characteristics. The S2k (and many other OEM cars) have the pedals mounted on a sheet metal firewall which isn't racecar stiff. There are braces available to reinforce the pedal assembly from the front shock tower.
Urge and Sakebomb have rear rotor kits. Girodisc is a large floating disk that used the OEM caliper.
This video, showing an S2000 at VIR, shows the brake rotor temps around the track.
The brakes heat up when used then cool down after braking completes. The energy transferred to the brakes is dissipated when they are off. The two factors or brake cooling and rotor heat capacitance (very little heat should reach the caliper, which is why brake fluids have relatively low boiling points). Changing the rotors can increase their heat capacitance. Brake ducts can increase the rate of cooling. The increased power will mean more speed down the straights to be dissipated by the brakes. As a new track driver, you will be braking to a lower corner speed, also increasing the amount of heat dissipated by the brakes.
Pads have different coefficients of friction. A higher coefficient allows more braking force for a given caliper clamping force/pedal force. Pads also have different temperature operating ranges. The pads also have different engagement and release characteristics. The S2k (and many other OEM cars) have the pedals mounted on a sheet metal firewall which isn't racecar stiff. There are braces available to reinforce the pedal assembly from the front shock tower.
Urge and Sakebomb have rear rotor kits. Girodisc is a large floating disk that used the OEM caliper.
This video, showing an S2000 at VIR, shows the brake rotor temps around the track.
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
Greyout
S2000 Brakes and Suspension
5
04-13-2016 07:21 PM