Going Square
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Joined: Mar 2007
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u can also run a stiffer spring and softer one i the rear depending on what suspension you are running. my current staggered set up is 10/12 when i go no stag im gona swap the springs from to back b4 i start paying with the sway bars.
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 6,863
Likes: 125
From: Pawtucket, RI
Whether these cars (I have an '01, same suspension) OVERsteer or UNDERsteer is mostly down to how they are driven. The AP1 will absolutely oversteer if you lift off the gas when the back end starts to get squirrelly. Make sure you never put yourself in a position where you have to do that (get off the gas during hard cornering)!
Regarding "going square", why? If you're seriously tracking or autoXing the car and tenths matter, you will want to maximize grip all around, and going square allows the fronts to take more of the cornering load and allow more drive from the rears on corner exit. On the street, however, much bigger/heavier front wheels and tires with a much wider footprint will not feel as sprightly and "sportscar-like" as staggered will. And with staggered you don't have to worry about getting a stiffer front bar and/or removing the rear bar.
My .02...
Regarding "going square", why? If you're seriously tracking or autoXing the car and tenths matter, you will want to maximize grip all around, and going square allows the fronts to take more of the cornering load and allow more drive from the rears on corner exit. On the street, however, much bigger/heavier front wheels and tires with a much wider footprint will not feel as sprightly and "sportscar-like" as staggered will. And with staggered you don't have to worry about getting a stiffer front bar and/or removing the rear bar.
My .02...
Thread Starter
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Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 292
Likes: 0
Whether these cars (I have an '01, same suspension) OVERsteer or UNDERsteer is mostly down to how they are driven. The AP1 will absolutely oversteer if you lift off the gas when the back end starts to get squirrelly. Make sure you never put yourself in a position where you have to do that (get off the gas during hard cornering)!
Regarding "going square", why? If you're seriously tracking or autoXing the car and tenths matter, you will want to maximize grip all around, and going square allows the fronts to take more of the cornering load and allow more drive from the rears on corner exit. On the street, however, much bigger/heavier front wheels and tires with a much wider footprint will not feel as sprightly and "sportscar-like" as staggered will. And with staggered you don't have to worry about getting a stiffer front bar and/or removing the rear bar.
My .02...
Regarding "going square", why? If you're seriously tracking or autoXing the car and tenths matter, you will want to maximize grip all around, and going square allows the fronts to take more of the cornering load and allow more drive from the rears on corner exit. On the street, however, much bigger/heavier front wheels and tires with a much wider footprint will not feel as sprightly and "sportscar-like" as staggered will. And with staggered you don't have to worry about getting a stiffer front bar and/or removing the rear bar.
My .02...
I disagree. I think a properly setup 'squared' car feels fantastic on the street, and just as good as a staggered setup. Also, I get the benefit of being able to rotate the tires should I choose to do so.
Thanks for the .02 though. I appreciate it.
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 957
Likes: 12
From: Disneyland
Originally Posted by ZDan' timestamp='1367933707' post='22524799
Whether these cars (I have an '01, same suspension) OVERsteer or UNDERsteer is mostly down to how they are driven. The AP1 will absolutely oversteer if you lift off the gas when the back end starts to get squirrelly. Make sure you never put yourself in a position where you have to do that (get off the gas during hard cornering)!
Regarding "going square", why? If you're seriously tracking or autoXing the car and tenths matter, you will want to maximize grip all around, and going square allows the fronts to take more of the cornering load and allow more drive from the rears on corner exit. On the street, however, much bigger/heavier front wheels and tires with a much wider footprint will not feel as sprightly and "sportscar-like" as staggered will. And with staggered you don't have to worry about getting a stiffer front bar and/or removing the rear bar.
My .02...
Regarding "going square", why? If you're seriously tracking or autoXing the car and tenths matter, you will want to maximize grip all around, and going square allows the fronts to take more of the cornering load and allow more drive from the rears on corner exit. On the street, however, much bigger/heavier front wheels and tires with a much wider footprint will not feel as sprightly and "sportscar-like" as staggered will. And with staggered you don't have to worry about getting a stiffer front bar and/or removing the rear bar.
My .02...
I disagree. I think a properly setup 'squared' car feels fantastic on the street, and just as good as a staggered setup. Also, I get the benefit of being able to rotate the tires should I choose to do so.
Thanks for the .02 though. I appreciate it.
Now we have to fix those engineer's design by out-engineering those engineers.
The .01
Thread Starter
Registered User
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 292
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Originally Posted by dhfreak' timestamp='1367941559' post='22525124
[quote name='ZDan' timestamp='1367933707' post='22524799']
Whether these cars (I have an '01, same suspension) OVERsteer or UNDERsteer is mostly down to how they are driven. The AP1 will absolutely oversteer if you lift off the gas when the back end starts to get squirrelly. Make sure you never put yourself in a position where you have to do that (get off the gas during hard cornering)!
Regarding "going square", why? If you're seriously tracking or autoXing the car and tenths matter, you will want to maximize grip all around, and going square allows the fronts to take more of the cornering load and allow more drive from the rears on corner exit. On the street, however, much bigger/heavier front wheels and tires with a much wider footprint will not feel as sprightly and "sportscar-like" as staggered will. And with staggered you don't have to worry about getting a stiffer front bar and/or removing the rear bar.
My .02...
Whether these cars (I have an '01, same suspension) OVERsteer or UNDERsteer is mostly down to how they are driven. The AP1 will absolutely oversteer if you lift off the gas when the back end starts to get squirrelly. Make sure you never put yourself in a position where you have to do that (get off the gas during hard cornering)!
Regarding "going square", why? If you're seriously tracking or autoXing the car and tenths matter, you will want to maximize grip all around, and going square allows the fronts to take more of the cornering load and allow more drive from the rears on corner exit. On the street, however, much bigger/heavier front wheels and tires with a much wider footprint will not feel as sprightly and "sportscar-like" as staggered will. And with staggered you don't have to worry about getting a stiffer front bar and/or removing the rear bar.
My .02...
I disagree. I think a properly setup 'squared' car feels fantastic on the street, and just as good as a staggered setup. Also, I get the benefit of being able to rotate the tires should I choose to do so.
Thanks for the .02 though. I appreciate it.
Now we have to fix those engineer's design by out-engineering those engineers.
The .01
[/quote]
Lol, yeah no shit right.
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 957
Likes: 12
From: Disneyland
Originally Posted by -=Zeqs=-' timestamp='1368214920' post='22533942
[quote name='dhfreak' timestamp='1367941559' post='22525124']
[quote name='ZDan' timestamp='1367933707' post='22524799']
Whether these cars (I have an '01, same suspension) OVERsteer or UNDERsteer is mostly down to how they are driven. The AP1 will absolutely oversteer if you lift off the gas when the back end starts to get squirrelly. Make sure you never put yourself in a position where you have to do that (get off the gas during hard cornering)!
Regarding "going square", why? If you're seriously tracking or autoXing the car and tenths matter, you will want to maximize grip all around, and going square allows the fronts to take more of the cornering load and allow more drive from the rears on corner exit. On the street, however, much bigger/heavier front wheels and tires with a much wider footprint will not feel as sprightly and "sportscar-like" as staggered will. And with staggered you don't have to worry about getting a stiffer front bar and/or removing the rear bar.
My .02...
[quote name='ZDan' timestamp='1367933707' post='22524799']
Whether these cars (I have an '01, same suspension) OVERsteer or UNDERsteer is mostly down to how they are driven. The AP1 will absolutely oversteer if you lift off the gas when the back end starts to get squirrelly. Make sure you never put yourself in a position where you have to do that (get off the gas during hard cornering)!
Regarding "going square", why? If you're seriously tracking or autoXing the car and tenths matter, you will want to maximize grip all around, and going square allows the fronts to take more of the cornering load and allow more drive from the rears on corner exit. On the street, however, much bigger/heavier front wheels and tires with a much wider footprint will not feel as sprightly and "sportscar-like" as staggered will. And with staggered you don't have to worry about getting a stiffer front bar and/or removing the rear bar.
My .02...
I disagree. I think a properly setup 'squared' car feels fantastic on the street, and just as good as a staggered setup. Also, I get the benefit of being able to rotate the tires should I choose to do so.
Thanks for the .02 though. I appreciate it.
Now we have to fix those engineer's design by out-engineering those engineers.
The .01
[/quote]
Lol, yeah no shit right.
[/quote]
I think its important to ask why Honda went with a staggered setup in the first place (or why any manufacturer would).
In the case of mid/rear engine cars with a substantial rear weight bias, the bigger rear tires intuitively make sense. But why do 50/50 cars like the Corvette, S2K, etc run a staggered setup?
Well, I believe there are a couple of reasons. However, I really don't _know_, so this is speculation.
1. Weight transfer under acceleration. You may be at 50/50 static, but under hard acceleration weight transfers to the rear.
2. Acceleration traction. When launching hard, you want maximum rear traction. Bigger tires give you this. So why not just mount similarly sized tires up front? Because you really don't need them to maximize cornering grip. In fact, extra wide tires will increase steering effort, tire drag, cost, weight, etc.
Just some things to think about.
UL
In the case of mid/rear engine cars with a substantial rear weight bias, the bigger rear tires intuitively make sense. But why do 50/50 cars like the Corvette, S2K, etc run a staggered setup?
Well, I believe there are a couple of reasons. However, I really don't _know_, so this is speculation.
1. Weight transfer under acceleration. You may be at 50/50 static, but under hard acceleration weight transfers to the rear.
2. Acceleration traction. When launching hard, you want maximum rear traction. Bigger tires give you this. So why not just mount similarly sized tires up front? Because you really don't need them to maximize cornering grip. In fact, extra wide tires will increase steering effort, tire drag, cost, weight, etc.
Just some things to think about.
UL
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 2,677
Likes: 9
FRONT 70.3mm
REAR 64.1mm
Why bring up this topic? Seems unrelated, unless you plan to purchase another set of OEM rear wheels for a square setup.