Greater impact on ride? Front or rear suspension?
10-06-2015, 06:00 AM
#1
Greater impact on ride? Front or rear suspension?
Being you sit closer to the rear wheels it seemed to make sense that changes to the rear suspension would have a greater impact on ride. I have noticed doing research, there are several threads that indicate stiffer springs/damping in the rear will improve the ride. This seemed counter intuitive to me, but there were several posts supporting it. So the question is if you are tuning for ride, what end will make the most significant change? Front or rear?
10-06-2015, 07:10 AM
#2
My experience:
I installed 12k/10k springs on my. KW V3 OMG GEN1.5 BBQ LMAO coilovers. They originally came with 515LB (9.25k) all around.
I had a harder time dialing in the rear ride quality, and I felt that small differences in damper changes would make a huge difference in ride. The rear spring rate only increased by like 50LB. I left the damper setting right around the factory recommendation for the best compromise in ride.
The front rate increased by like 160LB. No issues dialing in front damping and the front rides fine. I left the front around their factory recommendation as well...but with a touch more bump damping. Weird with MUCH stiffer springs...but its comfortable and I dialed in a little bit of much needed understeer.
I installed 12k/10k springs on my. KW V3 OMG GEN1.5 BBQ LMAO coilovers. They originally came with 515LB (9.25k) all around.
I had a harder time dialing in the rear ride quality, and I felt that small differences in damper changes would make a huge difference in ride. The rear spring rate only increased by like 50LB. I left the damper setting right around the factory recommendation for the best compromise in ride.
The front rate increased by like 160LB. No issues dialing in front damping and the front rides fine. I left the front around their factory recommendation as well...but with a touch more bump damping. Weird with MUCH stiffer springs...but its comfortable and I dialed in a little bit of much needed understeer.
10-06-2015, 07:40 AM
#3
The argument that a more comfortable S2000 setup prefers either a lower delta betwen front and rear rates...or slightly higher rear rates as compared to the front may hold some water.
The REAR of my car felt more comfortable going over bumps with 517/517 than 675/575. The front really isn't drastically different.
But...there are plenty of front biased sprung coilovers for S2000's that are comfortable. Ohlins dfv, or Bilstein PSS9 for example. Maybe those coils have a more agressive rear damper to make up for the lower spring rate?
My prediction is that track people are going to start making a shift back to symmetrical or higher rear rates, coupled with staggered tires again.
The REAR of my car felt more comfortable going over bumps with 517/517 than 675/575. The front really isn't drastically different.
But...there are plenty of front biased sprung coilovers for S2000's that are comfortable. Ohlins dfv, or Bilstein PSS9 for example. Maybe those coils have a more agressive rear damper to make up for the lower spring rate?
My prediction is that track people are going to start making a shift back to symmetrical or higher rear rates, coupled with staggered tires again.
10-06-2015, 09:05 AM
#4
I have run stock 06 (slightly stiffer front ride rate), stiffer front (12/10) and stiffer rear setups (10/12).
Passenger cars are always set up with stiffer rear ride rates than front, because the rear end need to react to bumps (single compress and rebound) in less time than the front in order for both ends of the car to complete a single reaction to a bump at the same time. Some folks call this "flat ride" because it reduces pitching motions and reduces fore/aft cross-talk interfering with response to bumps. For a typical passenger car with the driver in the middle or slightly to the front of the car, this provides both the best ride quality and the best handling (assuming the rest of the setup is tuned for the desired roll rate).
In the S2000, you sit nearly directly on top of the rear axle, and the front axle is way out in front of you. It's like sitting the back seat of a regular car. So I've found the typical flat ride approach isn't actually more comfortable. You're not sitting in the middle of the car so you never really experience anything approaching "flat ride." Your butt moves with the rear axle but not with the front axle, so for comfort the rear axle should be as soft as possible.
For handling and maximum grip in sustained cornering situations (after dampers have taken a set), flat ride setups will still provide the most mechanical grip. For this reason, I've settled on running stiffer rear ride rate, at the expense of some comfort. 10K front, 12K rear. I run non-staggered tires and my sway bar (only front) and roll centers adjust the desired roll rates and resulting grip balance. Another advantage is this allows you to ditch the rear sway bar, a change which has tons of side benefits that also increase grip.
Passenger cars are always set up with stiffer rear ride rates than front, because the rear end need to react to bumps (single compress and rebound) in less time than the front in order for both ends of the car to complete a single reaction to a bump at the same time. Some folks call this "flat ride" because it reduces pitching motions and reduces fore/aft cross-talk interfering with response to bumps. For a typical passenger car with the driver in the middle or slightly to the front of the car, this provides both the best ride quality and the best handling (assuming the rest of the setup is tuned for the desired roll rate).
In the S2000, you sit nearly directly on top of the rear axle, and the front axle is way out in front of you. It's like sitting the back seat of a regular car. So I've found the typical flat ride approach isn't actually more comfortable. You're not sitting in the middle of the car so you never really experience anything approaching "flat ride." Your butt moves with the rear axle but not with the front axle, so for comfort the rear axle should be as soft as possible.
For handling and maximum grip in sustained cornering situations (after dampers have taken a set), flat ride setups will still provide the most mechanical grip. For this reason, I've settled on running stiffer rear ride rate, at the expense of some comfort. 10K front, 12K rear. I run non-staggered tires and my sway bar (only front) and roll centers adjust the desired roll rates and resulting grip balance. Another advantage is this allows you to ditch the rear sway bar, a change which has tons of side benefits that also increase grip.
10-06-2015, 11:01 AM
#5
So I am on a new set of Koni yellows and 500/500 GC springs. With the damping dialed in (went from full soft to stiffer until extra oscillations stopped) I ended up at 1.25 turns out in the rear and 1.5 turns out in the front. I am no expert but I believe I am fairly close to critically damped. The performance and handling is fantastic however the ride may be a little too aggressive for me. I could back the dampers down but then the extra bounciness comes back. I was thinking of dropping to 450lbs in the rear and leaving the damping or going down to 1 turn out. My question is, if ride is the primary concern, should I soften the rear, the front, or both?
10-06-2015, 11:16 AM
#6
Koni Yellows aren't exactly refined as compared to other shocks. They're good shocks...but they have some limitations. They work best at higher ride heights.
Try raising the car first.
Then buy a pair of 400 or 450lb springs. Put them on the back. Didn't work? Put them on the front.
Try raising the car first.
Then buy a pair of 400 or 450lb springs. Put them on the back. Didn't work? Put them on the front.
10-06-2015, 11:27 AM
#7
Something to add that may not be relevant...but it helped my situation greatly.
Once I fixed all the car's rattles (mostly from the OEM hard top), I found that I felt as if it rode 100X better. Obviously, the ride didn't really change. But the fact that I wasn't feeling or hearing the extra vibrations of shit rattling made it seem like a HUGE improvement.
Once I fixed all the car's rattles (mostly from the OEM hard top), I found that I felt as if it rode 100X better. Obviously, the ride didn't really change. But the fact that I wasn't feeling or hearing the extra vibrations of shit rattling made it seem like a HUGE improvement.
Trending Topics
10-06-2015, 11:28 AM
#8
I have run stock 06 (slightly stiffer front ride rate), stiffer front (12/10) and stiffer rear setups (10/12).
Passenger cars are always set up with stiffer rear ride rates than front, because the rear end need to react to bumps (single compress and rebound) in less time than the front in order for both ends of the car to complete a single reaction to a bump at the same time. Some folks call this "flat ride" because it reduces pitching motions and reduces fore/aft cross-talk interfering with response to bumps. For a typical passenger car with the driver in the middle or slightly to the front of the car, this provides both the best ride quality and the best handling (assuming the rest of the setup is tuned for the desired roll rate).
In the S2000, you sit nearly directly on top of the rear axle, and the front axle is way out in front of you. It's like sitting the back seat of a regular car. So I've found the typical flat ride approach isn't actually more comfortable. You're not sitting in the middle of the car so you never really experience anything approaching "flat ride." Your butt moves with the rear axle but not with the front axle, so for comfort the rear axle should be as soft as possible.
For handling and maximum grip in sustained cornering situations (after dampers have taken a set), flat ride setups will still provide the most mechanical grip. For this reason, I've settled on running stiffer rear ride rate, at the expense of some comfort. 10K front, 12K rear. I run non-staggered tires and my sway bar (only front) and roll centers adjust the desired roll rates and resulting grip balance. Another advantage is this allows you to ditch the rear sway bar, a change which has tons of side benefits that also increase grip.
Passenger cars are always set up with stiffer rear ride rates than front, because the rear end need to react to bumps (single compress and rebound) in less time than the front in order for both ends of the car to complete a single reaction to a bump at the same time. Some folks call this "flat ride" because it reduces pitching motions and reduces fore/aft cross-talk interfering with response to bumps. For a typical passenger car with the driver in the middle or slightly to the front of the car, this provides both the best ride quality and the best handling (assuming the rest of the setup is tuned for the desired roll rate).
In the S2000, you sit nearly directly on top of the rear axle, and the front axle is way out in front of you. It's like sitting the back seat of a regular car. So I've found the typical flat ride approach isn't actually more comfortable. You're not sitting in the middle of the car so you never really experience anything approaching "flat ride." Your butt moves with the rear axle but not with the front axle, so for comfort the rear axle should be as soft as possible.
For handling and maximum grip in sustained cornering situations (after dampers have taken a set), flat ride setups will still provide the most mechanical grip. For this reason, I've settled on running stiffer rear ride rate, at the expense of some comfort. 10K front, 12K rear. I run non-staggered tires and my sway bar (only front) and roll centers adjust the desired roll rates and resulting grip balance. Another advantage is this allows you to ditch the rear sway bar, a change which has tons of side benefits that also increase grip.
Passenger cars usually have stiffer REAR ride rates? I've almost always observed the opposite....
10-06-2015, 12:20 PM
#9
Something to add that may not be relevant...but it helped my situation greatly.
Once I fixed all the car's rattles (mostly from the OEM hard top), I found that I felt as if it rode 100X better. Obviously, the ride didn't really change. But the fact that I wasn't feeling or hearing the extra vibrations of shit rattling made it seem like a HUGE improvement.
Once I fixed all the car's rattles (mostly from the OEM hard top), I found that I felt as if it rode 100X better. Obviously, the ride didn't really change. But the fact that I wasn't feeling or hearing the extra vibrations of shit rattling made it seem like a HUGE improvement.
10-06-2015, 12:23 PM
#10
Koni Yellows aren't exactly refined as compared to other shocks. They're good shocks...but they have some limitations. They work best at higher ride heights.
Try raising the car first.
Then buy a pair of 400 or 450lb springs. Put them on the back. Didn't work? Put them on the front.
Try raising the car first.
Then buy a pair of 400 or 450lb springs. Put them on the back. Didn't work? Put them on the front.