Need help with brake feel
10-05-2018, 09:41 AM
#11
Have a civic MC2 <same brakes as dc2 Type R> brakes are very good with ebc yellow,had yellow on the s2000 also.<now Ferodo Ds2500>
A Huge servo on the Mc2,just rest your foot on the pedal and it stops at 130/140..
Now S2000 is a different beast requiring progressive feed back and is so designed as thus,being a sports car with 49/51 distribution, the brake bias is good.
Have gone oem Honda discs on fronts recently , Honda discs are better than a drilled discs & i think oem have a better stoppage ,
Honda are of a superior quality + maybe Honda are a treated disc.
A Huge servo on the Mc2,just rest your foot on the pedal and it stops at 130/140..
Now S2000 is a different beast requiring progressive feed back and is so designed as thus,being a sports car with 49/51 distribution, the brake bias is good.
Have gone oem Honda discs on fronts recently , Honda discs are better than a drilled discs & i think oem have a better stoppage ,
Honda are of a superior quality + maybe Honda are a treated disc.
But, the rotors are not going to affect the brake feel as his mentioning.
OP: If the pedal is soft, do not assume it was bled properly just due to it being performed at a dealer. Try bleeding again to see if that helps.
Perform the maintenance mentioned on the system. The S2k brakes, even stock, are very good. The only brake "upgrade" done to mine is higher temp fluid and Hawk pads up front. The folks that have driven it at practice autox events all have commented how good the brakes are on this car, and the folks I have let drive it have been around the block in terms of racing various cars (I dont let newbs I do not know drive the S in anger of course :P ).
10-06-2018, 06:45 AM
#12
All of my new vehicles have brake pedals that are far firmer than my S2000 ever did, I think it is just a new design feature of the newer vehicles. I had new rotors, carbotech pads, spoon calipers and stainless steel lines. While the braking was improved the S2000 pedal just never felt that firm to me like other vehicles. I think you can make it better but I can relate to what you are reporting.
10-06-2018, 08:05 PM
#13
Yea the booster recall was completed when I looked up the VIN. It doesn't have to be newer vehicles, the 07 Accord I used to have felt more firm and my brothers 03 530i bites pretty hard with just a light tap. My pedal isn't soft or mushy. Maybe it's because I'm too used to "artificial feel" like others have pointed out.
Since it is a 11 year old car and it did come from the East coast. I plan on just replacing my calipers when I do the brakes.
Since it is a 11 year old car and it did come from the East coast. I plan on just replacing my calipers when I do the brakes.
Last edited by xDoodles; 10-07-2018 at 10:42 PM.
10-07-2018, 02:01 PM
#14
Wait, what you are describing isn't pedal feel at all. Its initial bite. That is all pads.
Often higher performing pads, that is pads highly resistant to heat fade don't have especially great initial bite. They also often don't work well at all until you get some heat into them. Hence they often don't make very good street pads at all.
It sounds like you need different pads, not different calipers.
Often higher performing pads, that is pads highly resistant to heat fade don't have especially great initial bite. They also often don't work well at all until you get some heat into them. Hence they often don't make very good street pads at all.
It sounds like you need different pads, not different calipers.
10-07-2018, 06:53 PM
#15
I wouldn't swap the calipers unless you really need to. I doubt you need to. It may (often does) open up a bunch of other common issues...so...I wouldn't recommend doing it unless it needs to be done.
I'd start with new pads and rotors, as well as properly greased slides.
After you've done that satisfactorily, do a fluid flush. Make sure you follow good directions on this to prevent mishaps. I wouldn't recommend pushing the pedal past its normal operating range when you're doing the bleed or pad seating procedures.
I'd start with new pads and rotors, as well as properly greased slides.
After you've done that satisfactorily, do a fluid flush. Make sure you follow good directions on this to prevent mishaps. I wouldn't recommend pushing the pedal past its normal operating range when you're doing the bleed or pad seating procedures.
10-08-2018, 10:14 PM
#16
Okay after reading what everyone have posted, I believe I am just too used to "artificial" boosted feel on most of the cars I've driven and not used to the "natural" feeling of the S. I think I will just change the front rotors, pads, and fluid along with SS lines. Also going to properly grease the guide pins and putting new hardware clips. Thanks for all the post everybody, I actually felt like I've learned a lot more for sure.
10-11-2018, 07:12 PM
#18
Please bare with me as I am still a noob about this. So the S was purposely designed for the brakes to feel more "natural". Why is that? I just want to learn why it's designed and built that way so I can understand the car more.
10-11-2018, 08:26 PM
#19
Because Honda is old fashioned. Plus, you get better modulation because your leg is controlling the brakes more naturally. More leg pressure = linear rise in brake force.
An artificially brake-boosted car has a really hard pedal that reacts with a more on/off feel. Hard to really feel what's happening with the brakes. Works great for economy and non-sporty cars. But usually "driver's cars" have a more natural, old, analog feeling pedal.
10-12-2018, 06:03 AM
#20
I read about this study done once. They noticed that in panic stop situations, average drivers wouldn't hit the brakes as hard as was possible. They were strong enough, there was traction enough, but they didn't use all the braking power available.
So the study involved modifying some cars to increase the brake boost so that the same max pedal force the people were applying in panic stops would apply max force at the pads. Then they did the panic stop tests again.
The result? The drivers applied proportionally less pedal force so that they had an equal amount of stopping force as before. It was as if the people were afraid of max braking G force.
Back in the day, when tires sucked, in a panic situation people would universally jamb the pedal with all their might. Its like they poured all their panic into their right leg. But cars then would just skid. The max braking G's even a race driver could achieve on street tires was laughable today.
But now that even econ A/S tires have tremendous traction (compared to back then), people are holding back.
So I suspect the all or nothing, on or off, overly boosted brake systems of today are an attempt by engineers to address this quirk of average drivers.
Possibly in two ways:
One, by their on or off nature, making it more difficult to not use more of the available braking force
Two, by making people brake harder all the time, slowly retraining them on what normal braking feels like, so hopefully they will be more comfortable with much higher braking force when its called for
All this is great for your average family car, piloted by an average driver. But it sucks for real performance cars, with a competent driver behind the wheel. That driver wants the most resolution at the pedal, they are comfortable with high G forces, and know that max braking force occurs just below the traction threshold, and that to get the most out of their brakes, their task is to ride the razor edge of falling over into locking a wheel, using all their senses to stay just below that line.
A natural feeling pedal gives such a driver the tools tbey need to accomplish that.
So the study involved modifying some cars to increase the brake boost so that the same max pedal force the people were applying in panic stops would apply max force at the pads. Then they did the panic stop tests again.
The result? The drivers applied proportionally less pedal force so that they had an equal amount of stopping force as before. It was as if the people were afraid of max braking G force.
Back in the day, when tires sucked, in a panic situation people would universally jamb the pedal with all their might. Its like they poured all their panic into their right leg. But cars then would just skid. The max braking G's even a race driver could achieve on street tires was laughable today.
But now that even econ A/S tires have tremendous traction (compared to back then), people are holding back.
So I suspect the all or nothing, on or off, overly boosted brake systems of today are an attempt by engineers to address this quirk of average drivers.
Possibly in two ways:
One, by their on or off nature, making it more difficult to not use more of the available braking force
Two, by making people brake harder all the time, slowly retraining them on what normal braking feels like, so hopefully they will be more comfortable with much higher braking force when its called for
All this is great for your average family car, piloted by an average driver. But it sucks for real performance cars, with a competent driver behind the wheel. That driver wants the most resolution at the pedal, they are comfortable with high G forces, and know that max braking force occurs just below the traction threshold, and that to get the most out of their brakes, their task is to ride the razor edge of falling over into locking a wheel, using all their senses to stay just below that line.
A natural feeling pedal gives such a driver the tools tbey need to accomplish that.