Apex1.0

In the world of shock upgrades for the S2k, these two choices stick out as high quality options at a reasonable price point. Ebay junk aside, these are the only real options at around 1k, except maybe PSS. Both are considered upgrades to the factory AP1/2 dampers for different reasons. Overall what is better and why?

OEM CR damper
My understanding of the CR damper is it has similar internals to the standard damper with different valving. The shock is still a high quality mono-tube built by Showa. The valving is for stiffer CR springs and seems to be a good match to rates in that range.

The good
High quality mono-tube design
Possibly better heat dissipation compared to twin tube.
Valving curve similar to OEM but for stiffer springs.

Koni Sport (Yellow)
The Koni yellow is quite ubiquitous here and depending on who you talk to is the most underrated shock ever or a substandard design compared to OEM. The Koni yellow is still considered a high quality shock by most and is of twin tube, single adjustable design. The valving is considerable different than OEM or CR, which could be good or bad.

The good
High quality twin-tube design
Rebound adjustable with minimal cross talk
Multiple lower perch mounting heights
Rebuild-able and re-valve possible.

Clearly the Koni has more "features", but the CR has OEM quality. But what about the valving? The Koni is generally lower in compression and considerably stiffer in rebound (at max) then the OEM CR. What is better for street and what is better for track. Speak on it.

Slowcrash_101

Koni yellows are very good for autocross, and I know people that get them converted to dual adjustable and re-valved for higher spring rates, and they're very fast, some holding outright records. It's a decent starting point that can get very expensive in a hurry if you go full custom route. However going custom route is the only way to really get something useful out of them, other than light track, or regular autocross duty. Getting custom springs, helper, and tender springs, adjustable perches, custom valving, two way adjustable conversion, and custom top hats, you're looking at easily $2,400 over the cost of the OTS shocks. Factor in the cost of the OTS shocks and you could get a very nice set of Ohlins, or KW-club sports, or get some fixed spoon shocks for a couple hundred more

That said, as a Koni yellow OTS shock mated with some Swift-R springs or CR springs works quite nicely for some tracking and autocross, no doubt, and will be an upgrade over stock ap1 or ap2 suspension. They're not flimsy shocks and can maintain their valving for a good while. Far longer than any generic Taiwanese coilover can, as they start to lose valving at around 30k miles for street driven cars.

ExcelerateRep

My recommendation would be to go with the Koni Yellow. It's just a better product in terms of performance and quality. The adjustability is also a great feature and I think the valving isn't as prone to wearing out. I think they are more for a street car though, and if you're looking to have a more track/autocross oriented setup I would probably go with a set of coilovers as slowcrash said, there are a lot of options when you consider the price of a custom strut/spring combo.

Right now for most cars our sale on the TEIN Street Advance is cheaper than buying a set of Koni Yellows and Springs... go figure!

gptoyz

coilover does not automatically = Track/autocross dominance

there are plenty of crappy coil overs that are downgrades to stock dampers, including the CR damper.

You can't get any more idiot proof than the CR shock/spring setup. This suspension is a showa shock setup by Honda. Honda & showa definitely know what they are doing when they choose or design specifications. In the case of the CR, they wanted a competitive stock chassis car that can be driven on the street and go 70k+ miles. I think they achieved their goal.

With aftermarket adjustable coil over you run into the following problems:
-set ride height
-corner balance
-dampers may or may not be matched
-adjusters may or may not be consistent
-rebuilds
-leaks, squeaks

The konis apparently are a great builder shock and there are so many rebuilders/tuners that can service the koni shock. However konis apparently need to be batch tested and matched via a service like ground control.

I would avoid the low end teins like the plague. I have driven on them and can't say I care for the way they perform, at least on a track, instead of giving me the confidence of just driving, I have to focus on too stiff or not enough rebound.

Decide what you want your suspension to accomplish, then pick your solution. Who knows if you are one of those stance kids maybe those crappy teins are the solution.

Apex1.0

I agree, forget the low end stuff from Asia.

Stance is not an issue, but ride height adjustable is. That is a feature the CR shocks don't have. Also, Koni does have a mixed reputation for having some dyno plot variation, mostly due to variations in the adjuster. However, do you know someone who has dynoed all four OEM showas and overlaid them on a dyno graph? My guess is they are not a perfect match either. At the street/hpde level, most people are not going to notice those variations.

So for the Koni to CR comparison, I think we can agree both shocks are equal quality. The question is, shock design, features and valving profile.

gptoyz

This is how good, anecdotally, the CR suspension is.

05 s2k w/ 101k miles
asm s special 70mm + 63mm test pipe
kw clubsports (using oem top hats)
cr trunk + cr wing
J's racing s1
ap2v1 w/ 225 & 255 RS3s (60% left)
Recaro SPG
K&N FIPK
Air Pump Delete
Spare Tire Delete
Carbotech xp10/xp10 brake pads w/ wasp brake ducts
SS brake lines w/ RBF 660
Spoon Oil Pan
Spoon Engine and Transmission Mounts
Full Interior
alignment:
-2.5 camber/0 toe/6.5 caster/-2.5 camber/1/16 total toe in rear
October 2014 best lap 2:02.3

08 CR w 36k miles
Hawk DTC60/DTC60
225/255 BFG Rival (30% left)
Spoon Ball Joints
Test Pipe 63mm
SS Brake lines w/ RBF 660
alignment:
-3 camber/0 toe/7.0 caster/-3 camber/ 1/16 total toe in rear
November 2014 best lap 2:04.1

Both laps were clean laps; temperatures were both in the upper 50s in the early morning. I'm sure in more capable hands both times can be improved upon. I know there is more in the AP2 than in the CR as I was running out of suspension in the CR, I was waiting for the car to settle in transition at times. The cr also dives significantly more than the ap2 under braking so the rear is more prone to rotate. But that's a $2.5k suspension very well sorted car vs a relatively stock CR.

Put it this way, if I had the CR suspension in, I wouldn't waste the money on buying Koni Yellows, which is my case.
If I had the oem AP2 suspension and I was on a budget, I would probably go with a setup set of Bilstein PSS (screw the adjuster, pun intended).
If I had a modest budget to work with, I absolutely love the KW Clubsport suspension. I'm a huge fan of documentation and not guessing at stuff (although KW not providing a dyno of the suspension's performance does annoy me a little, even a reference of the intended design would be nice)


I believe the most important aspects for a weekend warrior like myself:
#1 reliability - don't want this crap falling apart; cough cough AST cough cough CRAP!
#2 documentation - knowing the limits of adjustability, how to properly install, correct setup is key to the average user; literally, you can with the KWs you can install them and the ride height/weight distribution can be maintained per the instruction manual
#3 serviceable - this is the one knock on KW - that not just anyone can service it. Ok well there are a couple of guys, but for the uninitiated you need to send these back to KW for servicing. At least they have a service center in the US and their turn around time is less than 2 weeks. cough cough AST cough cough CRAP! This is a big huge advantage for Bilstein, Koni and Ohlins - just about anyone can rebuild these dampers. While the showa cannot be serviced (that I know of); it doesn't need to be since it's robust enough to go at least 70k miles of abuse

I'm not a huge of adjustment for the uninitiated (myself included) this really sends you on the wrong path of learning how to drive. My philosophy is, if you can't tweak it, you just have to drive it. So you have to learn how to adapt to the situation and respond with driving input. I am also super lazy, so while I can twist knobs at a track day and write notes, I would prefer to just enjoy myself and work on improved driving skill and car control.

s2000ellier

CR suspension is fantastic. I regret when I sold them everyday.

Apex1.0

Good post. I agree with almost all of it. If I had a cr setup I would not be looking at Koni either. But here is why I don't agree with the pss. I would love to run a blistein but there is an issue with the PSS. The spring rates are too soft for serious track work. The dampers are not valves for heavier springs like the konis. I agree the pss9 adjuster is crap, everyone knows it. But the Koni adjuster is not crap. So you have simple adjustability and the ability to run stiffer springs. Plus konis and springs are cheaper than PSS.

Bullwings

You seem dead set on Konis... Just get them.

You'll likely be happy with them compared to your current setup.
Right now, you have the worst possible setup - H&R springs that are way too soft for the amount that they drop the car. And on top of it, the dampening/valving of the stock showas do not match, and you're likely running out of travel.

Whatever you do will likely be an improvement - whether you could have had better for equal (or slightly more money) will be indiscernible to you unless you buy another set of suspension (or drive someone else's car for an extended period - street and track).

As for serious track work - 500 lbs. is also quite soft. Especially if you use the top tier extreme category of tires (RS3, D-ZII, ad-08r, Rivals, RE-11a, etc.).

For serious track work on street tires, I think 600-700 lbs (10K - 12K) is the sweet spot. It also retains streetability, assuming you have a decent set of shocks that are valved properly.

For street tires, anything over 700 lbs (12K-ish) is too much. You don't really need much more spring until you step up to r-comps. I think all the 16K setups that are being used with street tires are overkill and way too much spring.

Edit: forgot to mention my preference... CR shocks over the Konis.

Sebring AP1

Who is "we"? I don't know a single reputable person who would call these equal quality.

Stick to the CR shocks and forget about height adjustability and features in this comparison.