As mentioned, Swifts are more compliant for a given spring rate. (Thanks?)for explaining why that is

To add, improved spring response (to bumps) was specifically my term for compliance. 10k 14k etc is just that on a static load, but we aren't talking anything static when referring to a working suspension when ride/handing is the concern.

I hate to hear about the hobbies your actually passionate about

 

Compliant would mean softer...not more travel. They are not more compliant. http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/us...lish/compliant

 

You ever heard the laymen’s expression “firm but compliant”? Compliancy has only a loose correlation with a given spring rate and therefore "softer" or harder means little. Compliancy means the spring moves, compliancy is a term to infer a fluid motion and not a static one, which I thought went without saying. So given that, 'bump response' is the key component here on me mentioning compliancy and why swift springs ...and possibly some others, are better. You can run a heavier spring rate to achieve benefits of supporting a given weight, and yet get a more reactive spring to road imperfections (aka bump response) compared to the same spring rate in another design, making your damper system work better. That’s been my experience running Swift back to back with other springs on the same dampers, and its part of the featured model Swift sells under anyway, so this is not a new concept here. That’s all there is to this. You can get out your fluid dynamics calculator and crunch numbers until your blue in the face, and try and interject some confusing data to support your theory’s, but none of that means anything if the control/assumption you’re working under is wrong - or misled I should say.

 

Sorry to hear about your problems with the Spec-R. My research has concluded that the Spec-R only matches well with the CR because of the spring rates (refer to the https://www.s2ki.com/s2000/topic/818884-characterization-of-the-oe-suspension-springs/page__view__findpost__p__19542422 to see the different spring rates between models), not because they don't fit (although in the past a lot of people has written that they "fit, it says so on the Swift website", lol. In fact, based on nmrado's formula found in another thread, I did some calculations and found our AP2 shocks actually don't match well with any of the off the shelf spring packages. It seems that practically all the well known spring manufacturers based their springs on rates from early Ap1s (not surprising since they were out first). The fact is that the spring rates changed quite significantly over the years.

 

The Swift Spec-R springs for the the S2000 are 7.5/7 (420#/390#), a bit stiffer than the CR. And they lower the car 1.2" which must have an impact on roll centers. Also note that most springs can be plus or minus several percent...enough that in this case the rears could be as stiff as the fronts.

It is very possible they are a bit much for the stock shocks, especially if the stock shocks were worn.

Mr. Junky, you have springs and shocks confused. They usually move in parallel because a stiffer shock is need to control a stiffer spring. However, the forces responding to road irregularities and initial body movements in response to steering, braking, and throttle inputs are overwhelmingly from the shocks.

 

I see this thread went in a different direction lol


So what's best for an ap2? Swifts w cr shocks or with koni yellows. Better I mean handling and performance.

 

Really, the thread should have said:

1) There is no functional difference between the different brand of springs that will affect an S2000. The spring selected should be tall enough that it has enough travel never to coil bind or go out of its operating range.

2) All of the shocks have roughly the same travel. The issue will be how much the car is lowered, taking away bump travel. Many aftermarket setups start with 1" or more of lowering, taking away bump travel. Most of the time, this isn't noticed

3) Going from a monotube to a twin tube shock is a step backwards. The only reason it has been done was go to stiffer springs on a budget; I don't think anyone is saying let me trade my Ohlins, Penskes, etc for a twin-tube Koni. There are also some lower cost monotubes these days and a complete Ohlins kit, the DFV, which includes shocks, 10k/8k Eibach springs (but painted yellow), and tophats for $2450. It is possible to get an HKS or Fortune Auto monotube in the $1200-$1800 with springs. Swift springs are an option on the Fortune packages. There are numerous threads where people are happy with all of them...however few people have ever driven more than one of them.

4) Note that any of these will move you out of the Street autocross classes.

Note that Koni lists an 2812 monotube for the S2000...it seems to sell for $1000/shock but can'f find anyone actually using them. They are a bit of an odd design with separate pistons for bump and rebound and the shaft adjustment appears to change the preload on the shim stack. No base valve (note: an adjustable reservoir is also a base valve).

My guess is you'd find the Ohlins DFV, FA 500 or 510, or the HKS ok. The HKS is made in Japan and has two versions: an SP with 16/16 springs you'd probably find too stiff, and an SP with 8/7 springs which you might find too small a change from stock. FA custom assembles the shocks in Virginia to whatever springs you decide on. They are in 'generation 5'. And they are the least expensive. Ohlins is a major name in racing shocks, and the DFV is a high quality assembly. It comes with a 10/8 springs which seem to work well on the street. I'm not sure what rebuild revalve service HKS offers in the US. Fortune can rebuild their shocks to any valving and there are Ohlins dealers (e.g. Urge a sponsor, and PSI) who can revalve the DFV. Pricewise, the DFV is its best value if used as it came in the box, sorted by Ohlins as part of their Road and Track collection.

Depending on how frequently you want to change tires you could also go to more aggressive tires. The Michelin PSS are probably the best performance street tire available. However, the Bridgestone RE71r is a race tire pretending to be a street tire. I'd recommend staying with the Michelin PSS for a street only daily driver.

Also, the S2000 US alignment spec has very little front camber. Realigning for more front camber may help response. Autocrossers use as much as they can get, usually limited by the chassis adjustment range to -1.9°. Be forewarned: some S2000s have their adjustment bolts frozen, especially the caster adjustment. My car had one caster adjustment frozen so I ended up with -1.7°. Factory rear spec is -1.5°.

 

I'm not as familiar with Swift springs, but I've had some great experiences with the Eibachs. They've been around a while and have a proven track record.

http://store.excelerateperformance.c...0/i-53649.aspx

 

You guys have given me a lot of great info here.

I have one further question though regarding how long aftermarket shocks will last.

For the last few years I've settled on (for an AP1 and an AP2 I have), Swift SpecR springs paired with CR shocks. Literally transformed the handling vs standard AP1/AP2. I've gone with the Swift springs instead of CR springs primarily to lower the car a bit. They are about 9-14% stiffer than CR springs.

It's my daily driver (25,000 freeway miles a year), and I do about 6-10 track days per year. Not much autocross anymore. I use tires such as BFG Rivals, Bridgestone RE-71r, Dunlop StarSpecII, etc. I want the best performance I can get without completely breaking my budget over the long run. In the past I've used used CR shocks, with 9,000-20,000 miles when I buy them.

Question: I've wanted to go to an aftermarket shock if it would offer me as good as or better performance than the CR shocks. CR shocks have satisfied me well as a good turnkey choice. But what's kept me from going the aftermarket route is the cost of rebuilding.

What's the real scoop here? Do they really require rebuilding every 10,000 miles (remember I drive 25,000 freeway miles per year)? Is rebuilding that expensive? Does it take a long time (how long would my car be down)?

I could afford a moderately priced aftermarket shock (new CR shocks I can get for $900), but not if I have to rebuild them a couple times a year.

Thanks, and sorry for the tangent here.

 

Are you having a specific issue with the CR shocks? CR shocks are the same high quality showa monotube as the AP1/2 shock, except they are valved for stiffer springs. As long as the spring rates are a good match to the valving, I think you will have a hard time improving on that setup significantly without spending lots more. But if you had to go aftermarket and are concerned about longevity you would want something that can be re built cost effectively. IMO, nothing will outlast the OEM shocks (CR or base), so with any aftermarket performance shock, you will have an increased service interval compared to OE. A quality aftermarket shock that can be rebuilt easily and affordably would be Bilstein.