I'm powering my 165KP's with an Audison LRx2.250 (120w x 2 @ 4 ohms). They sound fantastic!

 

JD, you may be missing one thing though. Running 100 watts RMS does not mean that your wattage won't peak to several multiples of that amount of power. Soundstream (and every brand that has been mentioned in this thread) measures their amps as continuous RMS watts. Most other manufacturers measure their amps work load in "RMS watts" which is somewhat arbitrary. Here's what Soundstream writes about their 2,000 watt Tarantula amp (the 700/2 and 800/2 pages are offline now):

I have little doubt that if you run 220 continuous RMS watts into a speaker designed for 100 watts RMS you risk damaging the speakers. (One of my questions was whether Focal intentionally underrates the power handling of their Utopias and if they really do need more continuous power).

While I no longer can find the exact number I think the TR 700/2 that I have can peak to the 1,200 - 1,500 watt range at a 2 ohm load. I don't think that sounds healthy for components. So the moral of the story is ... if you're going to "overclock" your speakers keep the volume knob judiciously low

Happy listening!

--Josiah

P.S. see http://www.bcae1.com/voltages.htm for more info.

 

I called a Focal dealer (Lightav.com) and he told me that the speakers will instantly "incinerate" with 400 watts RMS and that that had to be peak power or the person was blantantly lying. He said that the Utopias are extremely efficient (Sensitivity (2.8 V/1m): 92.5dB) and that he does not recommend over 100 watts RMS, but that 125 watts may improve the sound slightly and that is the max you should ever go.

Also, he told me that Focal itself says that their new-for-2004 speakers are better in every way (inc. sound quality) and they are $100 less. Go figure... So the best 6.5" speakers Focal makes are the 165 K2P, according to the head of their US distribution.

The guy I spoke with recommended the Soundstream Van Gogh 400.2 (100 watts RMS x 2 at 4 ohms) and said that you could do the 600.2 but that it is probably too much power (150 watts x 2) to the speakers and is more than he recommends.

 

I agree that a spikes on the input signal will define a specific spike peak on the output, but maybe not on multiples (for most amps) unless the gain is WAY up and then you have a whole host of other problems. It is important to note that the level of the peak is not a factor of the RMS rated output of the amp. Both a 100w and 200w amp set with equivalent gain, and at the same relative volume setting (for grins lets say 21 on on the 100w and 8 on the 200w), will generate the same spike, right? But the key is, at what THD?

When the input tells a 100w rms amp, running at 100w output, to create a 200w spike, distortion is 20%, 50%, who knows. At best, between the distortion and the drain on the amp's power supply, the whole frequency band goes flat and dull. At worst, you shorten the life of the amp's power supply and driver's voice coil from trying to reproduce the distortion.

When the input tells a 200w rms amp, running at 100w output, to create a 200w spike, distortion is at the rate RMS level (aka .0x or less, hopefully). The amp's power supply is well able to handle it without damage, and there is no flattening of the sound, and allegedly the driver is built to handle these transient peaks.

I think we are both on the same page with this, we both agree that routinely driving the speakers beyond their rated RMS wattage of 100w is bad. If the end user doesn't have the ability to regulate output below 100w, they will probably exceed RMS wattage for too long and this is bad.

However, if you can self-regulate, then having headroom on your amp is a very good thing musically and for the life of your equipment. I like my music very detailed but only so loud, so as far as the component speakers go I personally am OK there.

I would imagine in the realm of subwoofers, where wattages are crazy and sound levels hard to determine, it would be hard to self regulate. However, I don't have subs on my HT (PSB Stratus Golds more than cover the low end), and I am not ready to give up space in my trunk, so subs aren't really in my life right now. If I do go to subs I will configure them differently.

Well there you have it - I shouldn't believe everything I read! Apologies for repeating disinformation.

Hmm. The ones we both heard at Super Autobacs were _not_ - at identical output they were much much much quieter than everything else in the rack. However I am still hoping to find that was just a crossover issue.

FRELL! That must be why they are only $604 on woofersetc now! Well, at least I know the Upopias sound great, so I am going to stick to what I ordered - for now

Thanks for making those calls Josiah!

-JD

 

No problem pikkashoe called Focal America this morning and they said they consider their Utopias their best speakers for 2004 but that the K2P's have better tweaters and are very close in sound quality. Pikka reports that there's a new line of Utopias coming out in a year with a $3000 MSRP that are supposed to blow away everything anyone's ever heard. I can't wait!

 

GULP!

3k is a tough nut to swallow. I had better start saving now!

Dented my passenger fender tonight by leaning too hard on it while trying to shove 4 gauge up my Firewall's kazoo. Got the job done, but _sigh_ on the fender.

-JD

 

^ Ouch. Did you dent the external sheet metal? If so, paintless dent repair can probably get it out in 10 min and $50.

If you're interested PM Kristin (kmp5) -- she set up Ding Day at the beginning of the year.

 

Thanks for the tip! Red_Devil (or something like that) is setting up a ding day in Socal, hoping that pans out.

Yep, it is in the sheet metal, no visible paint damage but a nice little dip. I now have bent the sheet metal in (3) locations, all doing audio installs. This one, and one on each rear fender in front of the wheel well, one installing S-Pods and another installing power for the RSX sub. Hopefully no more will follow when I put in the door speakers.

I'll be really excited if they come out!

-JD

 

Oatnet how is the install coming along, pictures pictures pictures. I ordered everything already last friday so it should be here sometime this week. I ended up getting the Focal 165w's and the Sound Stream Tarantula 500.4. Hopefully this damm hurricane (Francine) does not show in florida for the weekend. Oatnet what type of RCA's and power wires did you get? I still have to get both before I start my install.

 

Since Lucid Automotive wasn't competent enough to SHIP a simple, standard, generic, speaker install kit within 10 days of placing the order (let alone email me regarding the same) I have been stuck waiting for them. I'm not waiting any more though - I cancelled my order with them and I'll make my own mount now.

{rant mode on}
Judging by Lucid's performance as a businessperson (slow/never ship, zero communication, etc), I have to figure this it has to be some kid making stuff in his garage. If I knew then what I know now I wouldn't have done business with him - I don't need someone who leaves me hanging for 10 days. Searches on s2ki show that some people end up waiting months for stuff from them. Boy am I glad I got DJ Qube's controller for my Alpine, and not the lucid model - Art had me setup in a matter of Days, otherwise I'd probably be still waiting for the Lucid stuff!
{rant mode off}

So far I have power run, the amp wired but not fused or the ground connected - not much to take pictures of. I tested the speakers to make sure they were functional, all seems OK, but as I saw at Autobacs they are power HOGS and the low end is not that strong. Hopefully I can overcome that, and if I am lucky it was just the low-output source I was using. Here is the happy box, though:

-JD