Hi, I'm starting to look into upgrading the sound system in the S, and I have some ques for audio experts that are not in the FAQ...

First, here's my idea for a system:
HU - Either an Alpine 9847 or 9851. I don't want a HU with a swing face, which is why I want the 9847, but looking at ways to keep the dash controls, the 9847 is "remote ready", so I think its an option for the IR remote.

iPod adapter from Alpine - I want to integrate my iPod, and this is why I'm going w/ the Alpine HU.

I don't want rear speakers, just front components and a sub. I listened to a number of speakers today, and liked the Polk Momo MMC6500 components. Or maybe these
Polk db6500s.
I think I'll run three channels from the amp, front left, front right, and a bridge for the sub. This is using my old Alpine V12 F301.

For the sub, I'm eyeing the enclosure from www.azcartoys.com. No clue on what speaker to put in it though.

Retail prices I've looked at stack up. $2-300 for the HU, $100 for the iPod adapter, $2-300 for components, $200 for a sub enclosure, ~$100 for a 8" sub, ~$100 for an adapter for the dash. Plus cables

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Here's another question, I have an old Alpine MRV-F301 4/3/2 channel amp, with the following specs below. Is this amp suitable for driving all five speakers? Is it suitable for driving just the sub through the trunk? If so, can I get by running the front speakers off the HU and just amp the sub so I can hear it in the cabin?

This is all Greek to me, so can anyone tell me if this amp fits my needs or if I should just get a newer amp? Waste not want not....

The amp:

output: rms cont at 12V
per channel 4 ohm: 30W
per channel 2 ohm: 40W
Bridged 4 ohm: 80W

Dynamic power at 14.4V
per channel 4 ohm: 50W
per channel 2 ohm: 60W
Bridged 4 ohm: 120W

freq resp: 10hz-50kHz (+0, -1dB)
sig noise ratio: 100dBA
input sensitivity: 200mV to 4V (1V at center detent)
input impedance: 10k ohms
speaker impedance: 4 or 2 ohms stereo, 4 ohms bridged
active dividing frequency and slope: 50 to 200 Hz, 12 dB per octave

What does all this mean?

Thanks in advance for the input, explanations, etc.

 

Hey - (caution......LONG post)

Are you going to be amping the cabin speakers, or running them off the HU power? If you are running off the HU, you will want a sensitivity rating of 90+. This tells you how well the speakers respond to low power.....their efficiency if you will. As far as the sub, you will want a LEAST 250W (rms) running in order to hear any real difference.

RMS rating is like continuous power. Ignore the peak power ratings, as they mean pretty much nothing, and is only achieved in lab conditions, just before the amp fries itself from overheating.

For the sub, I would recommend finding a Dual Voice Coil sub with a 4-ohm impediance per coil. This will allow you to wire it up so the total impediance is only 2-ohms. This will open up the possibilities for amps a LOT. Most amps that can handle 2-ohms have higher output at that impediance anyways.

If you are going to go with an 8" instead of a 10" well sub, I would recommend WLAURENT's enclosure. Takes up almost NO room and looks good. Only certain subs will fit this enclosure, due to its small volume.....he has a list on his site.

Alpine has an adapter for the Alpine head units.....get that one, as it is compatible.

As far as HU's, I have the 9851, and love it.....some people like more tweakability, and get the 9855. Depends on your tastes. You will need the Modifry DCI to retain stock dash controls. It is easy to hook up. If you can solder and tell colors, you can install all of this stuff yourself (people on here will also help you if you get stuck).

That 4/3/2 amp you have will only really work on the cabin speakers. Its a 4-channel, right? If you want 4 speakers, I recommend the S-pods, but other's like the Lucid panels.....personal preferrence. S-pods provide better volume for top down interstate cruising and the Lucid panels offer more "true" rear speaker fill.

For door speakers, the Infinity Reference series should be a direct drop-in replacement, but are lacking a bit on the low end frequencies (IMHO).

The key to ALL speaker and HU purchases is to LISTEN before you BUY. Speakers sound different to different people. It is a completely subjective question as to what "sounds best."

Here is what I would do with your stuff:

1. Get new HU and iPod adapter w/ Modifry DCI.
2. Get rear channel speakers
3. Replace stock speakers
4. Hook up YOUR amp to those.
5. Get sub / box / amp hooked up.


This can get kinda Pricey . Remember.....Online purchasing is your friend! I did my whole system for under $1000.

Thanks

John

PS - If you need any clarification on this stuff, PM me.

 

what kind of door speakers are you planning on running? if you really want to keep that amp then look for a speaker that has a power handling within the rms range of your amp (not sure if there are many that low on rms power handling). i disagree that you'll need rear speakers, they kill imaging in my opinion (and i'm a bitch for imaging) and would be better off spending the extra dollar and time on a good amp and front stage. an 8" sub should work just fine (i ran 2 8" solobarics in my old car and it sounded quite tight and clean) just make sure to power it appropriately. i personally think you'd be better off with an amp in the 75-100 watt rms category as MOST components tend to run in this range, not to mention you could then get around 200 watts rms to power your sub.

 

Thanks for the input. Here's what I'm thinking, but I'm open to anyone's suggestions. One thousand dollars is my target price, and here's what I have so far.

HU - Either an Alpine 9847 or 9851. I don't want a HU with a swing face, which is why I want the 9847, but looking at ways to keep the dash controls, the 9851 is an option for the IR remote. It depends on what dash/HU adapter I get I guess, but I haven't looked into this yet. On these unites, the max is 50w/4 channels, with rms around 13w....

iPod adapter from Alpine - I want to integrate my iPod, and this is why I'm going w/ the Alpine HU.

I don't want rear speakers, just front components and a sub. I listened to a number of speakers today, and liked the Polk Momo MMC6500 components. Or maybe these
Polks.

I think I'll run three channels from the amp, front left, front right, and a bridge for the sub. This is using my old Alpine V12 F301.

For the sub, I'm eyeing the enclosure from www.azcartoys.com. No clue on what speaker to put in it though.

Retail prices I've looked at stack up. $2-300 for the HU, $100 for the iPod adapter, $2-300 for components, $200 for a sub enclosure, ~$100 for a 8" sub, ~$100 for an adapter for the dash. Plus cables.

 

If you love imaging, where is the fill coming from? All you are running if you have only a front sound stage is drivers only. Rears can be setup in our car to have great fill and imaging (granted not with S-pods). Some people get a 2-channel amp, and run 75-120WRMS to the front speakers, and run the rears off the HU's 18-22WRMS. That provides the "fill" that proper imaging requires, and does not overpower. (This is what I am going to be doing too...but with the S-pods)

The 9851 is a swing face, and does have some flaws. Alpine has recognized that some have been defective (like mine) but they repair for free and pay shipping both ways, in the event that it does happen. I recommend buying from a local retailer, in case this happens, they can just give you a new one.

I do not believe that the Polks will drop in. I think you might need Lucid's spacers, or a MDF ring spacer (3/4"). Making the rings takes like 10 minutes with a drawing compass and a jig saw.

That sub enclosure is WLAURENT's. That is his site....I think. As far as the speaker, look for a high x-max. THis is the number that indicates how large the excursion is.....higher excursion generally means bigger bass. Also look for a larger magnet. This will determine how quickly the air can be displaced. I recommend any of the JL Audio subs...they are all pretty good. PM him "WLAURENT" about sub selection, and he should be able to REALLY help you with that.

As far as using your amp to power the sub, the sub might be a DVC 4-ohm sub, which would not work at all with your amp. Make sure its a SVC 4-ohm sub, or a DVC 8-ohm sub. I think the DVC 8-ohm sub can be wired for 4-ohm impediance. I would look for another amp for the sub. I am running an Infinity (7820a...I think) and it puts out 283WRMS at 4-ohms. This is PERFECT for my listening tastes. I listen to a lot of rock and classic rock. It provides GREAT fill bass, and is not overpowering at all, and I am running a 10" sub too. I think the 120WRMS is not enough. I don't even think you will hear it from the cabin at speed.

John

 

I've read that ppl here have dropped the Polk 6500s in (db & Momo), but had to use the stock mounting brackets on the tweeters to squeeze them in. Thanks for the tip on the sub - is azcartoys not wlaurent's site? Anybody know? I'd buy from fellow S members if possible.

Also, for dash controls, I'm leaning towards Modfry's DCI controller to use w/ the Alpine 9847. Any advice on that? The 9847 is "Wireless Remote Control Ready" with a built-in "Remote-on Lead", so it should work, right?

Even if the amp is not powerful enough, I think its a good place holder for the initial system. Once I get everything in place, I can take a breather, see where I'm at, and upgrade the sub if need be, but hey, I've got this thing just lying around, so I figure I might as well save some money while I can and see what shakes out.

 

Just an FYI....I just had an 8" Alphasonik installed in the trunk in a wlaurent box and it sounds great; exactly what I was hoping for: full, tight low end. The amp is a Memphis 250W x 1

 

The db6500's do indeed drop right in.

 

Good to hear that they drop in. That will save you some work.

Personally, I would bridge the 4-channel amp so you have 2 channels pumping 80-120WRMS to the fronts, then buy an Infinity amp (on sale for $80-99 (shipped) at cardomain.com) for the sub. I am an advocate of getting it all outta the way, because when you remove trim panels over and over again to re-install stuff, clips break and it becomes a general PIA. I like to just do it and get it done.

I am 99.9999% sure that is WLAURENT's site. Once again....PM him and he should be able to recommend a sub for that enclosure, as he designed it and will know what type of sub will sound best.

John

 

Thanks for the info - I'm pretty sure azcartoys is his site, sine it mentions wlaurent enclosures on it. I'll have to PM him on the sub, but I've seen a couple ppl mention the Alphasonik as good (PSW810, 608), including Niotunes (thanks!).

Regarding the second amp jwa4378 - I'm all for it, but once I've run wires, adding a second amp is just a matter of changing speaker wires at the amp, correct? I plan on placing my old amp in the trunk, and a second amp would be back there too, so do you really think I need to get a second amp right away? The additional power cable seems like a minimal PITA to run.... I'm really leaning towards going w/ one amp to start, in case you can't tell!

Bored at work today, so I drew a wiring diagram real quick of how I plan to put this together.