Sorry Phil....just responding to the comment. Not actually calling him a tool. Calling him a tool because he called me a tool.....childish, I know.

John

 

bah... i'm not a moderator, so it's not like i can do anything about it. just noting it, and the generally goofy/childish trend of this whole thread.


(of course, i DO have 2 moderators cell numbers stored in my phone.... )

(speaking of which -- where has Jim been lately?)

 

What a bunch of tools! Er, I mean "What a shame it is for someone to spoil it all for everyone by breaking the rules."

SebringDemon, you knew exactly what he meant when he said watts are not always watts. Jesus, dude, didn't you get this kind of reception the first time you showed up here? Do you argue just for the sake of argument? Crap, I post here very little but read a lot. Your written dialog comes across as really abrasive.

Oh yeah, almost forgot :

 

 

what is the point of your post?

i dont care to have any type of debates on here anymore. i am going to state my thoughts and leave it as that. my intent was to clarify incorrect facts.

i mean, you guys surely are convinced that watts are different. well, go get yourself some money from richard clark's challenge that all watts are the same. if you can disprove him, which im sure everyone who posted can, if i recall correctly, you can get $5,000 or $10,000. good luck.

everyone who posted on in this thread is one sided, from now on, i dont care to have any type of debate to clarify BS.

example, somehow my post about kenwoods THD and alpines THD. everyone is so concerned about THD and power. everyone was sure that alpine is better than kenwood. well... read for yourself.

[QUOTE (S2KinVA @ Dec 19 2005, 05:03 PM)
I just dont know how to explain it anymore.... Yes in an ideal world 1 watt of power = 1 watt of power, the key is to get the cleanest watt of power and a lower THD which would produce a cleaner, clearer sound.

Compare a 125watt Kenwood to a 125watt Alpine, the Alpine will not only produce more power, it will be a cleaner signal with a lower THD thus producing a better "watt", We are trying to explain why a better amp produces better power, if you can only argue that a watt is always a watt you may want to read a few car audio forums before coming back in here.

Note the difference in performance between 2 similar amps....

Kenwood KAC-8042 60w x4 channels RMS = 1%THD at 4ohm $249.99
Alpine MRV-F345 75w x4 channels RMS=.3% THD at 4ohm $449.99



Also, can everyone refrain from the flaming..... [end quote]



the kenwood has a THD of .08% and the alpine has .3%.




somehow nobody commented on that.

anyways, im done.

happy holidays.

 

S2kinVA, you should at least give credit to Crutchfield for the information you copied and paste. This way, they wouldn't come after you if they become money-hungry. Just a heads up

 

I think what everyone is trying to say here is basically the magnitude of the power may be the same, but the distortion output will be different.

While SebringDemon is trying to say because the distortion output is inaudble that it is insignificant.

Both sides are right. There are differences, but the differences are inaudible.


Honestly, I never look at the amp's THD. My speakers will be putting out over 8% THD or more so 0.2% coming from the amp is inaudible for me. Couple that with road noise and it's impossible for me to hear the amp's distortion. That's like telling me I should be able to recognize and additional 0.5hp added to my engine


Everyone made good points here. Interesting read none the less, but I think this thread should be lock before it gets ugly.

 

I see Sebring's point here.....he was speaking more towards total output, regardless of distortion. While I still hold reservations that not all watts are equal (well, technically, they are all "equal", but the methods of measurement are not). I thought the THD rating on an amp played a larger role in overall distortion.... Oh well. There are valid points on both sides. I was speaking more to the standardization of measurement methods, not the definition of a watt itself. That is why the Kenwood brand caught my eye....I do not think they are CEA-2006 compliant (at least last time I checked....a few months ago). Why would a company pass on an additional certification of their product? The only answer I can think of is if they are overrating the power.

Well, I am not going to post in this thread anymore, as it will probably be locked soon, and we are just spinning our wheels here.

John

 

[QUOTE=SebringDemon,Dec 21 2005, 11:05 PM]what is the point of your post?

i dont care to have any type of debates on here anymore. i am going to state my thoughts and leave it as that. my intent was to clarify incorrect facts.

i mean, you guys surely are convinced that watts are different. well, go get yourself some money from richard clark's challenge that all watts are the same. if you can disprove him, which im sure everyone who posted can, if i recall correctly, you can get $5,000 or $10,000. good luck.

everyone who posted on in this thread is one sided, from now on, i dont care to have any type of debate to clarify BS.

example, somehow my post about kenwoods THD and alpines THD. everyone is so concerned about THD and power. everyone was sure that alpine is better than kenwood. well... read for yourself.

[QUOTE (S2KinVA @ Dec 19 2005, 05:03 PM)
I just dont know how to explain it anymore.... Yes in an ideal world 1 watt of power = 1 watt of power, the key is to get the cleanest watt of power and a lower THD which would produce a cleaner, clearer sound.

Compare a 125watt Kenwood to a 125watt Alpine, the Alpine will not only produce more power, it will be a cleaner signal with a lower THD thus producing a better "watt", We are trying to explain why a better amp produces better power, if you can only argue that a watt is always a watt you may want to read a few car audio forums before coming back in here.

Note the difference in performance between 2 similar amps....

Kenwood KAC-8042 60w x4 channels RMS = 1%THD at 4ohm $249.99
Alpine MRV-F345 75w x4 channels RMS=.3% THD at 4ohm $449.99



Also, can everyone refrain from the flaming.....

 

Well, I kinda started it, as I saw that he was only 18 days old and jumped directly into a theoretical debate.....which on this site is usually not a good idea. I was just trying to avoid this type of thing by warning him that people on here will bite back. He is obviously more qualified than I gave him credit for, which was my mistake for assuming him for a noob.

I shoulda just kept my mouth shut.

John