Hey everyone-

I got popped today by Highway Patrol. When I asked for documentation or radar or laser speed readout, he told me the plane got me, and that is what it said on the ticket. My 8500 did not pick up a thing! Not even a chirp! First thing I saw/heard were the lights in the rearview. The speed on the ticket I also believe that the speed is NOT what I was doing (85 tops in a 70, and he had me at 93. the difference is points on my license or not). He said they got me a while back, but I do not ever remember seeing any planes or choppers either within range.... I am wondering if the cop BS'd me when I asked for proof of speed... hoping I would not contest the ticket, as I would have to drive 1/2 way across the state to contest a $200 ticket. The points are not a problem, as I can take the driving course and wipe those off.

I am just concerned about how I got NO warning at all. Usually if its a laser warning, it too late, but a warning would still be nice. Also, we were in my new wife's Civic, so positioning of the unit is not a problem.

Has anyone else had problems with aerial patrol (I know there area lot in Cali). Also, does anyone know what band radar they usually use, or do they usually use laser (line of sight)? I am wondering what the viable range is from top down.... as the sensors are directed mainly front and rear...

Thanks again!

john

 

There was an article in Car and Driver a month or two ago about Highway Patrol planes used in, I believe, Ohio. They monitor speed by using a stopwatch to time vehicles passing certain distance markers painted on the freeway (white horizontal lines in that state). Not sure if this is the case in FL, but could be why no radar signal was detected.

 

Yeah, no radar used, just the old eyesight and a stopwatch. This is the kind of ticket you fight though, as the issuing officer is not the witness to the infraction - but you still use a lawyer.

 

Interesting. Sounds prone to error to me. I am not going to fight it, as the trip there plus the court fees will be more than the ticket and the class combined.... this is what I hate about highway patrol, if you are ticketed, you must protest it within the county that issued it (regardless of the jurisdiction of the issuing department). Highway patrol is state-wide, but I have to travel to the county to protest it? What a bunch of crap.

Thanks again.

John

 

Speed enforcement via aircraft is used in several states. They usually use a system called VASCAR. VASCAR is a simple computer type device that the calculates speed using the time it takes a vehicle to travel between two known distances. VASCAR has been around longer than radar and is less prone to error than radar because it is a simple mathamatical system. The aircraft usually patrols over a place where two landmarks with known distance are. When the target vehicle passes the first landmark, the VASCAR user presses the button. When it pases the second landmark, he presses it again. Speed is displayed.

I always recomend appealing any ticket unless your jurisdiction charges a court fee to do so because you may get lucky and the officer won't show. Going in with the argument that airrial enforcement is inaccurate is not a winner though IMO. The department doing it would not be wasting money on aircraft, pilots and chase cars if it wouldn't hold water in court. Also, the guy running the system in the plane is an officer as well, and relaying the info to the guy on the ground regarding speed, and vehicle identification. The guy writing the ticket can't be in the plane too, and again, if it wasn't a proven system, they wouldn't waste the money.

I wouldn't worry about your detector not functioning in this case because radar and laser are not used from the sky. Generaly, in most states, X is rarely used. K is more frequent, and Ka is the most frequent these days. Cheaper radar detectors actually emit Ka signals which can false another radar detector from a few cars away. NJ is one of the few states that still uses alot of X band even today.

Another thing to remember about radar is that it is getting harder and hard to detect these days do to better police training. Instant-on radar has been around for a long time, but most officers uses it in constant on mode with it always reading speeds and therefor always sending out radar than can be detected. A good traffic cop will wait with his instant on unit until he sees a car he visually estimates to be speeding. He then activates the radar and gets a speed reading before the driver can react to the alert from his detector. Laser works the same way. Your only hope against instant on is that you get a sniff of radar from the officer hitting a vehicle ahead of you.

The best way to speed and not get caught is to never be the "trailblazer" or first guy in the pack or only guy speeding. Get yourself a "rabbit" to speed ahead of you. When this guy passes at a good clip, follow him at a 1/4 mile distance. That way you can watch for his brake lights or pick up a snif of radar used on him. That will do nothing against airial enforcement though which is tough to beat.

Good luck in your appeal and let us know how you make out.

 

One trick in spotting CHP aircraft is to know what they look like and how they operate. Generally speaking there are only two types of fixed winged aircraft that fly at low altitudes near highways; crop dusters and the CHP.

Most CHP traffic patrol aircraft are a version of the high-wing Cessna. When they are spotting, they fly below 2,000 AGL and will generally have their flaps down to maintain flight at a lower airspeed. You won't see many Cessna's flying low along a strech of highway, so odds are, if you see one flying low and slow and following a highway, it's a CHP.

As for calculating your speed, they use those big perpendicular lines you see on the highway shoulders and simply clock your time from one line to the next. Keep an eye out for those odd looking lines along the highway, when you see them on the roadway, that's a primary location for CHP airborne operations.

Here's a great article which explains how the CHP operate here in California:

http://www.gilroydispatch.com/news/c...w.asp?c=144136

On the other hand, because of the expense of aviation operations (maintenance, fuel, etc), there are not that many around, they typically don't travel far from their home base and they don't fly every single day. Here in Nor Cal, Auburn Airport (near Sacramento) is a home base for CHP. As such, you're more likely to see them flying anywhere within 100 mile radius of Sacramento. I've spotted them on I-5 on a number of occasions, fortunately heading south while I'm heading north. As soon as I see them, I keep it at 65 and watch them like a hawk until I'm out of the area. Keep in mind, they prefer open streches of highway where you're easy to see. Roads with lots natural obstructions; trees, tunnels, high canyon walls, make it more difficult to spot and track you.

Remember, they can't work alone as they need ground units to make the citation. Ever see five or six CHP in a row along the highway? That's a "wolf pack" and they're just waiting for the airbone guy to give them a call.

Since your radar detector is worthess for this threat, your best defense against the airborne CHP are bad weather, darkness and just keeping your head on a swivel when the top's down. If you're going that fast, you NEED to be looking around and not depending on your radar detector. Also, check out the CHP websites or radio stations before you plan a fast road trip, many times they announce in advance where they're operating.

Good advice from the previous post; let the other guy run out front! Also, watch behind you as you pass blind over-pass onramps and always, ALWAYS check-six!

 

That happend to me in Miami (turnpike), istate trooper will line around 10-15 cars in the highway waiting to be call by air...........I was driving a goverment vehicle (I'm military) and a State Trooper stop me and he told me a i was doing 85, i explain the idiot that the van that i had (which i was carrying soldiers) is so freaking old it would not go pass 65 mph even if you floored it! but he said well that was the chopper that called us we just issue the ticket" if you want to take it to court, and i replied hell yeah, i'll c u there.
Anyways i took this to the "ticket clinic" and they took care of everything i WON they will send the lawyer and take care of everything

 

I spoke it over with my father-in-law who is a public defender. he said that in my case it will not be worth it, as I WAS actually speeding, just not as fast as they say (I think he may have got the reading from the car next to me that was passing me), and I would be found guilty, just of a lesser speed. the court fees and the travel itself would amount to greater than the reduction in the ticket, so I will just pay it.

Thanks again

JOhn

 

Both officers would have to testify.

Airplane speed estimation is a lie because the plane is moving. Therefore he's not in a constant place from which to measure when you pass a line. His angle, and changing angle, make this impossible.

Contact NMA at motorists.org

Ken

 

Not worth it. Even if he were at an angle, the bumper of the car is not more than a few inches off the ground, negating any variances due to angle of vision (even if it were a severe angle, he would not be off more than a few 100ths of a second at speed). The court fees, on top of the fact that I was indeed speeding (just not at the rate they claimed) would result in points on my license, and just as much, if not more in overall fees if I were to WIN. If I were to lose, I would be screwed. I am just going to take the class tomorrow and pay the damn thing....

Seems like traffic tickets are guilty until proven innocent these days.... Car and Driver had a whole thing on tickets and the new traffic camera systems that just mail your tickets to you....

John