Newly tuned EMS Series 2
04-16-2012, 09:38 PM
#1
Thread Starter
Newly tuned EMS Series 2
Hey guys,
Let me start off by saying I am a complete noob when it comes to engine management so please bear with me (long post ahead...sorry!)
I recently got my car tuned by Mike@Autowave (awesome guy and service, very friendly and really wanted to get the most out of my car). The car runs great and much smoother than it was pre-tune. I do, however, have two areas of concern regarding the current calibration of my ems.
1. Coolant temp: From what I've read, the EMS 2 is supposed to support the coolant temp dash gauge (unlike the v1 which required the modifry ect fix). I've noticed that my coolant temp gauge seems to act very irregularly esp when the car is cold. When the car is cold, the gauge could rise by itself (car is not started), it could be at full bars and start dropping in temp, etc. When I do start the car, the temps will rise pretty quickly. An example is that within 10 seconds of starting the car, the gauge would be at 3-4 bars and would not accurately reflect what is being shown on AEMTuner.
Coolant temp gauge shows 10 bars...
but coolant temp is actually 59F (note, air temp was also reading high by about 10 degrees)
I've read through various sources that the ect/iat temp tables need to be configured and that the configurations supplied in the AEM base map is not accurate. Would this affect what I am seeing? The settings I have are:
If this is what needs to be changed - is it safe for me to do so without affecting the rest of my tune? Another thing I noticed was that settings for turning on the fans...does that mean that the EMS controls the fans and not the fan switch? 
2. My second area of concern is the cold start-up. I know that with EMS, its not going to start up the same as stock. However, based on other startup videos I've seen on youtube, my car seems to take a bit longer to start up than average. Here is a video and aem log data of a cold startup I just did tonight (refer to the picture above for more stats).
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NjkHTrdlsEI&feature=youtu.be[/media]
I was going to bring this up with Mike, but before I do so I'm trying to educate myself more so I can actually understand what's going on. I always let the fuel pump prime (on my map its set to 2.88 seconds vs 5 seconds...is this ok?)
Thanks to anyone who takes the time to read this and I appreciate any help you guys can give me. I just want to be a bit more educated before I go call autowave and start asking stupid questions.
Let me start off by saying I am a complete noob when it comes to engine management so please bear with me (long post ahead...sorry!)
I recently got my car tuned by Mike@Autowave (awesome guy and service, very friendly and really wanted to get the most out of my car). The car runs great and much smoother than it was pre-tune. I do, however, have two areas of concern regarding the current calibration of my ems.1. Coolant temp: From what I've read, the EMS 2 is supposed to support the coolant temp dash gauge (unlike the v1 which required the modifry ect fix). I've noticed that my coolant temp gauge seems to act very irregularly esp when the car is cold. When the car is cold, the gauge could rise by itself (car is not started), it could be at full bars and start dropping in temp, etc. When I do start the car, the temps will rise pretty quickly. An example is that within 10 seconds of starting the car, the gauge would be at 3-4 bars and would not accurately reflect what is being shown on AEMTuner.
Coolant temp gauge shows 10 bars...
but coolant temp is actually 59F (note, air temp was also reading high by about 10 degrees)
I've read through various sources that the ect/iat temp tables need to be configured and that the configurations supplied in the AEM base map is not accurate. Would this affect what I am seeing? The settings I have are:
Code:
ECT Current(v17 basemap) 261 261 230 205 183 165 149 135 124 113 104 97 90 82 77 72 66 61 55 50 45 39 34 28 21 16 10 5 0 -4 -8 -9 -11 Recommended 261 261 214 185 165 153 140 131 122 115 108 100 93 88 82 77 72 66 61 57 52 46 41 36 30 27 23 19 16 12 9 5 5 IAT Current 261 261 261 261 244 228 216 201 190 180 169 160 151 144 136 129 122 117 109 102 97 90 84 75 70 61 52 43 32 21 9 -6 -20 Recommended 261 261 241 230 219 210 199 189 180 169 158 149 142 135 127 122 115 109 104 97 90 82 77 70 64 57 50 43 36 28 21 16 10
2. My second area of concern is the cold start-up. I know that with EMS, its not going to start up the same as stock. However, based on other startup videos I've seen on youtube, my car seems to take a bit longer to start up than average. Here is a video and aem log data of a cold startup I just did tonight (refer to the picture above for more stats).
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NjkHTrdlsEI&feature=youtu.be[/media]
I was going to bring this up with Mike, but before I do so I'm trying to educate myself more so I can actually understand what's going on. I always let the fuel pump prime (on my map its set to 2.88 seconds vs 5 seconds...is this ok?)
Thanks to anyone who takes the time to read this and I appreciate any help you guys can give me. I just want to be a bit more educated before I go call autowave and start asking stupid questions.
04-17-2012, 12:18 AM
#2
The IAT tables might need some fixing if its reading incorrectly, that should be an easy fix by changing some numbers around on that table you have above.
I dont think the coolant temp tables are whats going on with your ECT reading incorrectly, if it were, I think the dash ECT would reflect the same as the EMS software, but they would both be incorrect from the actual temperature. I dont know 100%, as I didnt have an ECT fix on my EMS v1 when my ECTs were calibrated incorrectly.
I dont know how the v2 EMS hooks up to the dash ECT dash gauge but you might have a wiring problem, that would be where I would look first at least, and every single one of my problems I've had with my EMS has been due to wiring issues, from sporatic AFR readings, to ECT dash gauge not working, to power steering, speedometer and injectors all cutting out on me intermittently on the freeway at 80mph!
Your start up looks good though, it starts up about the same if not a little faster than my start up e-tuned by Jeff Evans. EMS is gonna take a bit longer than stock, but sometimes it will start up just as fast as stock, and sometimes it will take over a full extra second to start up in my experiences.
I dont think the coolant temp tables are whats going on with your ECT reading incorrectly, if it were, I think the dash ECT would reflect the same as the EMS software, but they would both be incorrect from the actual temperature. I dont know 100%, as I didnt have an ECT fix on my EMS v1 when my ECTs were calibrated incorrectly.
I dont know how the v2 EMS hooks up to the dash ECT dash gauge but you might have a wiring problem, that would be where I would look first at least, and every single one of my problems I've had with my EMS has been due to wiring issues, from sporatic AFR readings, to ECT dash gauge not working, to power steering, speedometer and injectors all cutting out on me intermittently on the freeway at 80mph!
Your start up looks good though, it starts up about the same if not a little faster than my start up e-tuned by Jeff Evans. EMS is gonna take a bit longer than stock, but sometimes it will start up just as fast as stock, and sometimes it will take over a full extra second to start up in my experiences.
04-17-2012, 07:01 AM
#3
1. On the AEM ems 2, every once in a while I get the cluster temp gauge showing full bars on a cold start, but EMS coolant temp shows < 100. As long as the EMS coolant temp numbers are good, I'd just ignore the cluster temp gauge as it is getting the signal from the ems. Probably a software bug somewhere. Just drive it and the cluster temp gauge will show the correct expected bar.
2. The AEM EMS IAT and coolant calibration table was found to be off for the S2000 by members here on S2Ki. They ran a controlled calibrated plot and the tables you posted are the result. With the AEM calibration table, I would see the coolant temp in between 200-210 constantly. Not exactly sure what was the reading at cruise, but I would notice the coolant fan turning on constantly. The fans are set to turn on at 200F in EMS. With the calibrated tables, I get 180F coolant temp cruise. The fan kicks in only in stop and go traffic when the coolant temp rise up to 200 and turns off when the temp < 200.
Would it affect your current tune if you put in the new calibration tables? Depends on if your tuner used the coolant and IAT tables to adjust fuel and timing for your tune. Check the Ignition trim tab to see if they are adjusted.
3. My startup is just exactly as yours, a long crank time. At lease we don't have to crank twice...
2. The AEM EMS IAT and coolant calibration table was found to be off for the S2000 by members here on S2Ki. They ran a controlled calibrated plot and the tables you posted are the result. With the AEM calibration table, I would see the coolant temp in between 200-210 constantly. Not exactly sure what was the reading at cruise, but I would notice the coolant fan turning on constantly. The fans are set to turn on at 200F in EMS. With the calibrated tables, I get 180F coolant temp cruise. The fan kicks in only in stop and go traffic when the coolant temp rise up to 200 and turns off when the temp < 200.
Would it affect your current tune if you put in the new calibration tables? Depends on if your tuner used the coolant and IAT tables to adjust fuel and timing for your tune. Check the Ignition trim tab to see if they are adjusted.
3. My startup is just exactly as yours, a long crank time. At lease we don't have to crank twice...
05-21-2012, 09:58 PM
#5
Anyone verify if the ECT needs to be calibrated from the basemap that AEM supplies us AP2 people? I noticed my temp gauge 1 bar warmer than oem but my actual temps are around 180-190F.
05-22-2012, 07:11 AM
#6
The temp gauge misbehaves for maybe the first 30seconds upon startup then it acts perfectly normal. I just live with it for now.
Cold start is definitely fixable. The ems has an entire tab dedicated to start up options. You can get it pretty close to stock if you tinker enough. Stat sync actually occurs pretty fast, if the ems can warm start well it is capable of cold starting the same.
What firmware are you on?
Sent from my T-Mobile G2 using Tapatalk 2
Cold start is definitely fixable. The ems has an entire tab dedicated to start up options. You can get it pretty close to stock if you tinker enough. Stat sync actually occurs pretty fast, if the ems can warm start well it is capable of cold starting the same.
What firmware are you on?
Sent from my T-Mobile G2 using Tapatalk 2
05-24-2012, 10:38 AM
#7
Thread Starter
i called aem customer service and directed their attention to the temp gauge issue posted in the aem forums: http://forum.aempower.com/forum/inde...c,27209.0.html
they were surprised to see this (i guess no one reported it before?) so the cs rep is going to speak with their engineers and get back to me. If they do, I'll post any info in this thread.
My temp gauge also reads 1 bar higher than with the oem ecu - i spoke to my tuner about the calibration table, but then we'd have to recalibrate everything so i opted not to for now. maybe if i ever need a retune i'll have him modify the coolant calibration table.
jh4db536 (or anyone else) - do you have any cold start settings that you wouldn't mind sharing with me? Mike @ autowave's been really open about helping me with my cold start. its just a pain because i need to leave the car overnight so he can have it dead cold, so any settings i could maybe share with him would be great.
they were surprised to see this (i guess no one reported it before?) so the cs rep is going to speak with their engineers and get back to me. If they do, I'll post any info in this thread.
My temp gauge also reads 1 bar higher than with the oem ecu - i spoke to my tuner about the calibration table, but then we'd have to recalibrate everything so i opted not to for now. maybe if i ever need a retune i'll have him modify the coolant calibration table.
jh4db536 (or anyone else) - do you have any cold start settings that you wouldn't mind sharing with me? Mike @ autowave's been really open about helping me with my cold start. its just a pain because i need to leave the car overnight so he can have it dead cold, so any settings i could maybe share with him would be great.
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05-24-2012, 11:44 AM
#8
My settings won't mean much since I'm not on stock injectors (rdx 410cc).
You really need to tinker with it and you have about 2 chances a day. The table that has the largest effect will be the crank injector table. I would start in the ballpark of 10k microseconds or 10ms if you are using stock injectors and fuel pressure.
Make sure injector deadtimes are dialed in...but don't mess up your tune either. I feel that the table was improved in v24 firmware so compare your map to it. (Changes in Less than 12v probably won't affect your tune as the battery voltage drops far below the actual "running rpm" that your car was experiencing on the dyno).
Crank min and max can be modified. I think default min is 50rpm....that means ems won't even considered to be cranking/injecting fuel and sparking until the starter gets the engine to 50rpm, this can be tweaked for better cold start response. Try lowering the min in small increments. The max defaults at 500rpm. I think 500 could be a little high, you'll get used to feeling the engine when it takes over the starter. You have to tinker in small increments.
The time it takes your starter to reach Xrpm = the optimal rpm vs 50rpm default is just wasted time during cold start. Find X by trial and error. The car has an optimal 'timing' when cold where the beginning spark and injection events will actually help the starter go from like ~75 to ~400 rpm.
There's not much to log, just log rpm, crank, stat sync events, and maybe injector pulse. Might be a good exercise just to disconnect injectors and crank engine so you can see for yourself what the rpm curve looks like just with the starter spinning the motor.
There's a lot of variables, but you'll learn a lot.
Sent from my T-Mobile G2 using Tapatalk 2
You really need to tinker with it and you have about 2 chances a day. The table that has the largest effect will be the crank injector table. I would start in the ballpark of 10k microseconds or 10ms if you are using stock injectors and fuel pressure.
Make sure injector deadtimes are dialed in...but don't mess up your tune either. I feel that the table was improved in v24 firmware so compare your map to it. (Changes in Less than 12v probably won't affect your tune as the battery voltage drops far below the actual "running rpm" that your car was experiencing on the dyno).
Crank min and max can be modified. I think default min is 50rpm....that means ems won't even considered to be cranking/injecting fuel and sparking until the starter gets the engine to 50rpm, this can be tweaked for better cold start response. Try lowering the min in small increments. The max defaults at 500rpm. I think 500 could be a little high, you'll get used to feeling the engine when it takes over the starter. You have to tinker in small increments.
The time it takes your starter to reach Xrpm = the optimal rpm vs 50rpm default is just wasted time during cold start. Find X by trial and error. The car has an optimal 'timing' when cold where the beginning spark and injection events will actually help the starter go from like ~75 to ~400 rpm.
There's not much to log, just log rpm, crank, stat sync events, and maybe injector pulse. Might be a good exercise just to disconnect injectors and crank engine so you can see for yourself what the rpm curve looks like just with the starter spinning the motor.
There's a lot of variables, but you'll learn a lot.
Sent from my T-Mobile G2 using Tapatalk 2
05-24-2012, 04:36 PM
#9
Thread Starter
thanks for the info! i'll check my firmware when I get home...stupid question - will updating my firmware affect my tune? does a v17 firmware require a v17 map? or can i load a v17 map if i upgrade to v24
05-24-2012, 04:53 PM
#10
i called aem customer service and directed their attention to the temp gauge issue posted in the aem forums: http://forum.aempower.com/forum/inde...c,27209.0.html
they were surprised to see this (i guess no one reported it before?) so the cs rep is going to speak with their engineers and get back to me. If they do, I'll post any info in this thread.
My temp gauge also reads 1 bar higher than with the oem ecu - i spoke to my tuner about the calibration table, but then we'd have to recalibrate everything so i opted not to for now. maybe if i ever need a retune i'll have him modify the coolant calibration table.
jh4db536 (or anyone else) - do you have any cold start settings that you wouldn't mind sharing with me? Mike @ autowave's been really open about helping me with my cold start. its just a pain because i need to leave the car overnight so he can have it dead cold, so any settings i could maybe share with him would be great.
they were surprised to see this (i guess no one reported it before?) so the cs rep is going to speak with their engineers and get back to me. If they do, I'll post any info in this thread.
My temp gauge also reads 1 bar higher than with the oem ecu - i spoke to my tuner about the calibration table, but then we'd have to recalibrate everything so i opted not to for now. maybe if i ever need a retune i'll have him modify the coolant calibration table.
jh4db536 (or anyone else) - do you have any cold start settings that you wouldn't mind sharing with me? Mike @ autowave's been really open about helping me with my cold start. its just a pain because i need to leave the car overnight so he can have it dead cold, so any settings i could maybe share with him would be great.