Aftercooler vs Intercooler for S/C setup
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From: South of the pier, Huntington Beach, CA
Originally Posted by 21k,Oct 23 2009, 12:06 AM
whats everyones setup who have a vortech or comptech and a 12psi pulley. does the stock a/c get the job done?
The addition of a full front radiator like the SOS unit to the factory setup will cool the charge unit even more.
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From: PDX
I'm definitely on the fence about switch to IC setup after the dyno day I've attended last weekend.
My CTSC setup at 11psi was having lots of heat soak issues that day evidently from the 3 back to back pulls. It went from 355 > 349 > 342 on back to back pulls. Since it was a dyno day event, they were doing the pulls very quickly back to back, which was a good test for me to verify if my AC unit is being over worked, and it was.
I know my car should have made a little more than 355 too based on my last tuning session with proper cool down time in between pulls, my car should have made more power each pull. But I felt the way the dyno day's pulls were, was more realistic like everyday stop and go traffics.
On the other hand, there was a high boost KW car there, and that car actually made more power after each pull with its Intercooler setup, so it seems like it was doing a far better. It made 340 > 348 > and eventually ended up at 350+. I was very impressed at the job the IC did for that kit.
Any one have any other experience with doing back to back dyno on a CT or VT kit car with IC setup?
My CTSC setup at 11psi was having lots of heat soak issues that day evidently from the 3 back to back pulls. It went from 355 > 349 > 342 on back to back pulls. Since it was a dyno day event, they were doing the pulls very quickly back to back, which was a good test for me to verify if my AC unit is being over worked, and it was.
I know my car should have made a little more than 355 too based on my last tuning session with proper cool down time in between pulls, my car should have made more power each pull. But I felt the way the dyno day's pulls were, was more realistic like everyday stop and go traffics.
On the other hand, there was a high boost KW car there, and that car actually made more power after each pull with its Intercooler setup, so it seems like it was doing a far better. It made 340 > 348 > and eventually ended up at 350+. I was very impressed at the job the IC did for that kit.
Any one have any other experience with doing back to back dyno on a CT or VT kit car with IC setup?
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From: High Point NC
Do you typically run both an aftercooler and then add a intercooler to it or if you decide to go with a FMIC do you just get rid of the aftercooler? Curious because there is a used Vortech kit for sale that comes with both and with stock pulley it made 316whp.
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From: PDX
Usually from what I've seen, its one or the other. Though I've seen inquiries in the past about people asking if they could run both, and the general consensus is that its too much trouble, too much boost lost for very little gain over a properly setup IC (piping) or AC (larger heat exchanger) setup.
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Originally Posted by Jano,Oct 22 2009, 09:12 AM
There are plenty of posts going back for years on whether the standard aftercoolers that come with the Comptech and Vortec kits are superior to one of the intercooler setups or a custom configuration. Problem is, none of them reach any real conclusions and the few that at least have opinions generally go OT in a pointless debate between armchair engineers debating theories.
Has anyone done any real testing of intake temps or even subjective observations with both aftercooled and intercooled setups? I'm sure there are valid reasons why most of the s/c kits have come with a/c's but with many people are running 2x (or more) the boost levels that these kits were originally designed for, is it still the best setup? Living in Florida and running around 10lbs of boost I have been considering a higher capacity front radiator (SOS sells one, Tech2 does/or did) vs. a FMIC like UR's.
What got me thinking is this vendor's kit:
Intercooler Kit
Which looks pretty much looks like a copy of Ultimate Racing's kit:
UR FMIC Kit
The kit is not that much more than just adding SOS's larger radiator to my current system. I guess it comes down to whether the greater loss of boost is made up for by lower temps. Any thoughts on whether it's worth pursuing an upgrade radiator to an a/c, a fmic setup or should I just jump on the meth bandwagon?
Has anyone done any real testing of intake temps or even subjective observations with both aftercooled and intercooled setups? I'm sure there are valid reasons why most of the s/c kits have come with a/c's but with many people are running 2x (or more) the boost levels that these kits were originally designed for, is it still the best setup? Living in Florida and running around 10lbs of boost I have been considering a higher capacity front radiator (SOS sells one, Tech2 does/or did) vs. a FMIC like UR's.
What got me thinking is this vendor's kit:
Intercooler Kit
Which looks pretty much looks like a copy of Ultimate Racing's kit:
UR FMIC Kit
The kit is not that much more than just adding SOS's larger radiator to my current system. I guess it comes down to whether the greater loss of boost is made up for by lower temps. Any thoughts on whether it's worth pursuing an upgrade radiator to an a/c, a fmic setup or should I just jump on the meth bandwagon?
To me an AC overall performance wise makes much more sense. The boost loss with fmic doesn’t come close to offsetting the cooler temp. And then there is always the water/meth kit which levels the playing field and then some if there is any doubt.
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[QUOTE=S20004ME_PDX,Oct 23 2009, 06:32 AM] I'm definitely on the fence about switch to IC setup after the dyno day I've attended last weekend.
My CTSC setup at 11psi was having lots of heat soak issues that day evidently from the 3 back to back pulls.
My CTSC setup at 11psi was having lots of heat soak issues that day evidently from the 3 back to back pulls.
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Originally Posted by s2000Junky,Oct 23 2009, 09:19 AM
Yeah I know what you mean about the debates, ive seen many. Me and my buddy both have CT kits, I have run various pullies from stock to 10psi, he is currently running 3.8 9psi pully. I am running the AC unit with 4” making 8psi currently estimated 325whp from previous dynos. I’m also running meth but that’s not important in comparo since I didnt dyno with it, he is running the ultmtracing fmic making only 5psi at 280whp on smaller pulley same dyno Jet, only difference is the cooling parts we are descussing. I pull on him all day abviously. His intake temp is going to be cooler at speed but mine should be more consistent overall and especially in stop & go traffic since the water is always circulating, maintaining consistent temp, but I have no data supporting this, just my seat time and impressions from the kit.
To me an AC overall performance wise makes much more sense. The boost loss with fmic doesn’t come close to offsetting the cooler temp. And then there is always the water/meth kit which levels the playing field and then some if there is any doubt.
To me an AC overall performance wise makes much more sense. The boost loss with fmic doesn’t come close to offsetting the cooler temp. And then there is always the water/meth kit which levels the playing field and then some if there is any doubt.
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Originally Posted by itlynstalyn,Oct 23 2009, 11:57 AM
You could always just change pullies for higher boost. I think the FMIC makes sense for a lot of the people running the NON-AC version of the comptech. The new vendor one is much cheaper than anything I have seen available.
And yes for those that took a plunge on getting an inexpensive less reliable kit without the AC, then I might want to get a cheaper fmic fix right away too. water injection would be better, but thats not going to fix the overheated intake temps at idle and partial throttle which is where you spend most the time on the street. I would never run an SC kit without some form of cooling. All the old Comptech guys years ago learned that lesson.