Emanage Tuning - Advanced Basics
09-10-2008, 07:40 PM
#1
Registered User
Thread Starter
Emanage Tuning - Advanced Basics
Well I am starting to dive in to tuning now and I was looking for input from some seasoned veterans. As an Engineer I need to understand everything I can about the system before I start making changes. As with most who have come before me there are lots of holes left out in manual and lots of mysteries.
(1) Why does Greddy use the Injector and Timing Acceleration maps? What is being changed that the factory ECM maps won't be able to handle? Right now the throttle tip-in is horrible, the car goes below 10:1 and falls on its face then takes off.
(2) Under several of the maps Greddy used the RPM final RPM is set at 8500, in fact the only map that has data up to 9000RPM is the Acceleration Ignition Adjustment map. So does anything over this RPM get extrapolated from the previous values or by default return to factory?
(3) Has anyone had any success using the Intake temperature Ignition map? I ask due to the higher average temperatures which would be well above normal at while the ambient temperature is high.
(4) What maps are you using?
Any other tips you want to get rid of I am all ears, or well eyes anyway.
*EDIT*
Curently I am running the stock Greddy base kit with a BOV and Test Pipe & Emangage Ultimate. I also have a wideband hooked up and I am going to purchase another more reliable pressure sensor
(1) Why does Greddy use the Injector and Timing Acceleration maps? What is being changed that the factory ECM maps won't be able to handle? Right now the throttle tip-in is horrible, the car goes below 10:1 and falls on its face then takes off.
(2) Under several of the maps Greddy used the RPM final RPM is set at 8500, in fact the only map that has data up to 9000RPM is the Acceleration Ignition Adjustment map. So does anything over this RPM get extrapolated from the previous values or by default return to factory?
(3) Has anyone had any success using the Intake temperature Ignition map? I ask due to the higher average temperatures which would be well above normal at while the ambient temperature is high.
(4) What maps are you using?
Any other tips you want to get rid of I am all ears, or well eyes anyway.
*EDIT*
Curently I am running the stock Greddy base kit with a BOV and Test Pipe & Emangage Ultimate. I also have a wideband hooked up and I am going to purchase another more reliable pressure sensor
09-10-2008, 10:31 PM
#3
Registered User
1) cus those are the 2 things you tune to change the mappings of your car. the EM fools the ECU into 'thinking' its seeing different values than what is actually happening to compensate for changes in fuel injector size/boost levels/modifications.
a common cause for your car driving rich as hell and like shit is because you have larger injectors and did not compensate the tune to handle these changes. even though your car has larger injectors, the ecu will not be able to recognize that and will still tell the injectors to pulse in the same rate as stock ones will - which will cause a massive overabundance of fuel. just an example.
2) from what i've seen, the EMU only can display so many cells per map. 8500 might just be the limit. thats why on the greddy turbo basemaps there were 2 maps of cells - 1 for 0-8500 and another for 8501-9000 (or something to that effect)
3) no idea.
4) what maps am i using? who cares about me? my map wont help your car. what are you trying to tune? if you have something like a greddy turbo kit on your car its best to start with the supplied basemap and jump on the dyno. make a pull and see what you've got. we cant send you a map that is going to help in most cases.
it sounds like you are very new to tuning. i suggest grabbing the AEM EMS manuals - although they are about a different system than what you are using there is a great introduction to how tuning is done. it gives you some basic pointers and rules of thumb to get you started. i suggest learning how to compensate for different sized injectors so you can make your own basemaps that will get your car running in stock form on newer injectors. then you can at least get yourself to a competent tuner with a dyno and you can take it from there.
good luck.
a common cause for your car driving rich as hell and like shit is because you have larger injectors and did not compensate the tune to handle these changes. even though your car has larger injectors, the ecu will not be able to recognize that and will still tell the injectors to pulse in the same rate as stock ones will - which will cause a massive overabundance of fuel. just an example.
2) from what i've seen, the EMU only can display so many cells per map. 8500 might just be the limit. thats why on the greddy turbo basemaps there were 2 maps of cells - 1 for 0-8500 and another for 8501-9000 (or something to that effect)
3) no idea.
4) what maps am i using? who cares about me? my map wont help your car. what are you trying to tune? if you have something like a greddy turbo kit on your car its best to start with the supplied basemap and jump on the dyno. make a pull and see what you've got. we cant send you a map that is going to help in most cases.
it sounds like you are very new to tuning. i suggest grabbing the AEM EMS manuals - although they are about a different system than what you are using there is a great introduction to how tuning is done. it gives you some basic pointers and rules of thumb to get you started. i suggest learning how to compensate for different sized injectors so you can make your own basemaps that will get your car running in stock form on newer injectors. then you can at least get yourself to a competent tuner with a dyno and you can take it from there.
good luck.
09-11-2008, 06:20 AM
#4
Registered User
Thread Starter
[QUOTE=TelosHedge,Sep 10 2008, 10:31 PM] 1) cus those are the 2 things you tune to change the mappings of your car. the EM fools the ECU into 'thinking' its seeing different values than what is actually happening to compensate for changes in fuel injector size/boost levels/modifications.
a common cause for your car driving rich as hell and like shit is because you have larger injectors and did not compensate the tune to handle these changes. even though your car has larger injectors, the ecu will not be able to recognize that and will still tell the injectors to pulse in the same rate as stock ones will - which will cause a massive overabundance of fuel. just an example.
2) from what i've seen, the EMU only can display so many cells per map. 8500 might just be the limit. thats why on the greddy turbo basemaps there were 2 maps of cells - 1 for 0-8500 and another for 8501-9000 (or something to that effect)
3) no idea.
4) what maps am i using? who cares about me? my map wont help your car. what are you trying to tune? if you have something like a greddy turbo kit on your car its best to start with the supplied basemap and jump on the dyno. make a pull and see what you've got. we cant send you a map that is going to help in most cases.
it sounds like you are very new to tuning. i suggest grabbing the AEM EMS manuals - although they are about a different system than what you are using there is a great introduction to how tuning is done. it gives you some
a common cause for your car driving rich as hell and like shit is because you have larger injectors and did not compensate the tune to handle these changes. even though your car has larger injectors, the ecu will not be able to recognize that and will still tell the injectors to pulse in the same rate as stock ones will - which will cause a massive overabundance of fuel. just an example.
2) from what i've seen, the EMU only can display so many cells per map. 8500 might just be the limit. thats why on the greddy turbo basemaps there were 2 maps of cells - 1 for 0-8500 and another for 8501-9000 (or something to that effect)
3) no idea.
4) what maps am i using? who cares about me? my map wont help your car. what are you trying to tune? if you have something like a greddy turbo kit on your car its best to start with the supplied basemap and jump on the dyno. make a pull and see what you've got. we cant send you a map that is going to help in most cases.
it sounds like you are very new to tuning. i suggest grabbing the AEM EMS manuals - although they are about a different system than what you are using there is a great introduction to how tuning is done. it gives you some
09-12-2008, 08:39 AM
#6
The Greddy maps are set up for a turbo application.
The way those maps are set up is an effort by greddy to
(1) Why does Greddy use the Injector and Timing Acceleration maps?
09-12-2008, 10:17 AM
#7
Registered User
Thread Starter
Wow, thanks for the input, I have been surfing the Emanage forums and have picked up a few tips but I have a laundry list of questions several you just answered. The more I learn about the Emanage the more questions I have. I am not sure why everybody dogs the system so much. For a piggyback system they have done some amazing things.
I like that you are using the secondary I/J map in conjunction with the primary w/ auto tune. I was debating on using the second I/J in series with the first I/J map to increase my pressure resolution then using the 2.9V+ map with the auto tune. Do you use auto tune all the time?
I assumed that the Airflow output would allow the use of non-stock sensors but I was not sure. The resolution on my stock sensor is good however; I am worried about the reliability.
I was not planning to modify the Vtec point but, I would assume that it would help to lower it based on the increased flow with my turbo at low RPM.
Great Tip on the Second Timing map / Throttle %. I will work on that defiantly.
I was looking into clamping the O2 at Stoich rather than WOT but this seems much easier.
I like that you are using the secondary I/J map in conjunction with the primary w/ auto tune. I was debating on using the second I/J in series with the first I/J map to increase my pressure resolution then using the 2.9V+ map with the auto tune. Do you use auto tune all the time?
I assumed that the Airflow output would allow the use of non-stock sensors but I was not sure. The resolution on my stock sensor is good however; I am worried about the reliability.
I was not planning to modify the Vtec point but, I would assume that it would help to lower it based on the increased flow with my turbo at low RPM.
Great Tip on the Second Timing map / Throttle %. I will work on that defiantly.
I was looking into clamping the O2 at Stoich rather than WOT but this seems much easier.
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09-12-2008, 10:28 AM
#8
the Auto tune only modified I/J MAp2
This keeps MAP1 intact with is intentional tuned slightly rich then the A/F for max power.
This is so you can have a fall back if your A/F starts to fail.
If it does start to fail all you do is flip a couple of dip switches to turn off MAP2 and the A/F feedback map.
If you clamp the O2 at Stoich when at WOT you will throw a CEL. (Leaner then expected)
Even though the stock PCM does not use the A/F sensor for fuel trims when in Open loop it does look at it to make sure it is rich.
This keeps MAP1 intact with is intentional tuned slightly rich then the A/F for max power.
This is so you can have a fall back if your A/F starts to fail.
If it does start to fail all you do is flip a couple of dip switches to turn off MAP2 and the A/F feedback map.
If you clamp the O2 at Stoich when at WOT you will throw a CEL. (Leaner then expected)
Even though the stock PCM does not use the A/F sensor for fuel trims when in Open loop it does look at it to make sure it is rich.
09-12-2008, 08:23 PM
#10
Registered User
Thread Starter
Okay, I have been trying to post in the Emanage forums but I can't seem to get an account. So I am going to throw at a few more questions.
(1) If I turn on the V-Manage Map will that allow me to change the Vtec point.
(2) Can I use a momentary switch and 3.5 mm Jack to inserted in the serial port as a remote switch allowing me to start and stop the data logging feature. Or have be able to switch maps with that same push button.
(3) When I use the map trace, the throttle values in the table are 20% low. However the input value on the logs read properly and I manual set the throttle position.
(4) Can I run the two I/J maps in Series
(5) When I set up the Ignition tab I set the revlimiter adjustment is this aditive to the corrisponding cell in the Ign Ajustment map?
(1) If I turn on the V-Manage Map will that allow me to change the Vtec point.
(2) Can I use a momentary switch and 3.5 mm Jack to inserted in the serial port as a remote switch allowing me to start and stop the data logging feature. Or have be able to switch maps with that same push button.
(3) When I use the map trace, the throttle values in the table are 20% low. However the input value on the logs read properly and I manual set the throttle position.
(4) Can I run the two I/J maps in Series
(5) When I set up the Ignition tab I set the revlimiter adjustment is this aditive to the corrisponding cell in the Ign Ajustment map?