Flashpro tuning issue-boost
#1
Flashpro tuning issue-boost
Hey guys,
I'm having a problem with tuning flashpro that I can't seem to figure out at all. If any of the guys that are familiar with the software have any insight, I'd love to hear it!
I have posted this in the EMS section as well, as some of the good tuners (Gernby) aren't boosted and don't frequent this section often
So with closed loop enabled, but S.Trim values set to +/- 0% (so effectively off), S.Trim will still kick in and screw up my tune in very specific scenarios;
Scenario 1)
Hot starts. The car will start up, use the cranking fuel table and fade to the fuel table and will be right at 14.7, and then S.Trim will kick in, and pull 11% fuel from the map for about 10 seconds, causing the car to lean out to nearly 18.0, and then it goes back to 0% correction, and the car is back at 14.7. Most annoying thing in the world, because I can't drive my car for those 10 seconds, otherwise it will run poorly and very lean.
Scenario 2)
Between EVERY shift, S.Trim will pull that same 11% fuel right at throttle tip in, but only if I get off the fuel entirely, this can be prevented by hovering my foot on the throttle while shifting and can be replicated by decelerating and then getting back on throttle. For about 1 second, S.Trim will kick in, pull 11% fuel, make the car run lean, and then return to 0% correction, where the car runs fine again.
This will happen regardless of what Short trim settings are set at. I just set it to 0% tonight to confirm that it was S.Trim causing this issue. It should not have corrected the fuel AT ALL, since the S.trim settings are set to +/- 0% currently, however despite that being what I'm commanding, it's still wanting to pull fuel.
Here's a link to my Hondata forum post, which has links to the calibration and datalogs since apparently we can't post these types of files on s2ki..
http://www.hondata.com/forum/viewtop...p=89493#p89493
I'm having a problem with tuning flashpro that I can't seem to figure out at all. If any of the guys that are familiar with the software have any insight, I'd love to hear it!
I have posted this in the EMS section as well, as some of the good tuners (Gernby) aren't boosted and don't frequent this section often
So with closed loop enabled, but S.Trim values set to +/- 0% (so effectively off), S.Trim will still kick in and screw up my tune in very specific scenarios;
Scenario 1)
Hot starts. The car will start up, use the cranking fuel table and fade to the fuel table and will be right at 14.7, and then S.Trim will kick in, and pull 11% fuel from the map for about 10 seconds, causing the car to lean out to nearly 18.0, and then it goes back to 0% correction, and the car is back at 14.7. Most annoying thing in the world, because I can't drive my car for those 10 seconds, otherwise it will run poorly and very lean.
Scenario 2)
Between EVERY shift, S.Trim will pull that same 11% fuel right at throttle tip in, but only if I get off the fuel entirely, this can be prevented by hovering my foot on the throttle while shifting and can be replicated by decelerating and then getting back on throttle. For about 1 second, S.Trim will kick in, pull 11% fuel, make the car run lean, and then return to 0% correction, where the car runs fine again.
This will happen regardless of what Short trim settings are set at. I just set it to 0% tonight to confirm that it was S.Trim causing this issue. It should not have corrected the fuel AT ALL, since the S.trim settings are set to +/- 0% currently, however despite that being what I'm commanding, it's still wanting to pull fuel.
Here's a link to my Hondata forum post, which has links to the calibration and datalogs since apparently we can't post these types of files on s2ki..
http://www.hondata.com/forum/viewtop...p=89493#p89493
#4
I don't know who did that "tune" for you, but that's a pretty crappy FlashPro calibration. Why are you worried about the static -11% correction when you've got basically disabled closed loop feedback anyway and it's basically running open loop with lean spots to nearly 17 afr (and lots of rich spots lol). Trying to "tune" this ECU by forcing a quasi open loop? You shouldn't even waste your time doing that and dial closed loop in correctly instead.
The static fuel trim on tip in or transient conditions is an ECU learned trim. It happens on pretty much all modern Honda ECU's. The underlying logic of why the ECU learns this isn't totally clear and Hondata has added the ability to "turn it off" on some platforms, with hit or miss results (the settings do not work in many cases and the ECU still applies the learned trim).
The static fuel trim on tip in or transient conditions is an ECU learned trim. It happens on pretty much all modern Honda ECU's. The underlying logic of why the ECU learns this isn't totally clear and Hondata has added the ability to "turn it off" on some platforms, with hit or miss results (the settings do not work in many cases and the ECU still applies the learned trim).
#6
I think he is saying a better closed loop calibration outside of boost like cruising, daily driving is needed. When u get on it is where it should go into open loop and use the reflash where it counts.
The closed loop feedback is much more accurate when correct for cruising, and warm up etc. You will never be able to get open loop to function perfectly outside of WOT pretty much.
The closed loop feedback is much more accurate when correct for cruising, and warm up etc. You will never be able to get open loop to function perfectly outside of WOT pretty much.
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#8
I think he is saying a better closed loop calibration outside of boost like cruising, daily driving is needed. When u get on it is where it should go into open loop and use the reflash where it counts.
The closed loop feedback is much more accurate when correct for cruising, and warm up etc. You will never be able to get open loop to function perfectly outside of WOT pretty much.
The closed loop feedback is much more accurate when correct for cruising, and warm up etc. You will never be able to get open loop to function perfectly outside of WOT pretty much.
I think the part that you and Vit are both missing is the fact that I purposely set closed loop to 0% for two reasons;
1) For easier street tuning, so closed loop isn't interfering with true raw fue values
2) To isolate where the lean spike is coming from, with closed loop set to 0% and the software still using S. trim to pull fuel, I was able to determine why the car is leaning out on shifts.
#9
Hondata chimed in on my thread over on that forum, and this is what they said,
"There is a learned AF trim value that the ECU uses. This basically is to quickly set the short term trim to a value after running in open loop and switching to closed loop. eg after a gearshift. The solution is to tune to fuel tables so that the AF is closer to the target.
There also is a min and max for the learned value (look at a 2006 Civic Si calibration). I'll add this in for the next release for the S2000."
So as Vitviper mentioned, it's a hidden feature that isn't available for modification for S2ks (yet). And he was correct on the way to fix the issue, even if he was a little harsh on the quality of my incomplete map and tuning methods
"There is a learned AF trim value that the ECU uses. This basically is to quickly set the short term trim to a value after running in open loop and switching to closed loop. eg after a gearshift. The solution is to tune to fuel tables so that the AF is closer to the target.
There also is a min and max for the learned value (look at a 2006 Civic Si calibration). I'll add this in for the next release for the S2000."
So as Vitviper mentioned, it's a hidden feature that isn't available for modification for S2ks (yet). And he was correct on the way to fix the issue, even if he was a little harsh on the quality of my incomplete map and tuning methods
#10
Lol thanks for telling me how closed loop and open loop differ.
I think the part that you and Vit are both missing is the fact that I purposely set closed loop to 0% for two reasons;
1) For easier street tuning, so closed loop isn't interfering with true raw fue values
2) To isolate where the lean spike is coming from, with closed loop set to 0% and the software still using S. trim to pull fuel, I was able to determine why the car is leaning out on shifts.
I think the part that you and Vit are both missing is the fact that I purposely set closed loop to 0% for two reasons;
1) For easier street tuning, so closed loop isn't interfering with true raw fue values
2) To isolate where the lean spike is coming from, with closed loop set to 0% and the software still using S. trim to pull fuel, I was able to determine why the car is leaning out on shifts.
Hondata chimed in on my thread over on that forum, and this is what they said,
"There is a learned AF trim value that the ECU uses. This basically is to quickly set the short term trim to a value after running in open loop and switching to closed loop. eg after a gearshift. The solution is to tune to fuel tables so that the AF is closer to the target.
There also is a min and max for the learned value (look at a 2006 Civic Si calibration). I'll add this in for the next release for the S2000."
So as Vitviper mentioned, it's a hidden feature that isn't available for modification for S2ks (yet). And he was correct on the way to fix the issue, even if he was a little harsh on the quality of my incomplete map and tuning methods
"There is a learned AF trim value that the ECU uses. This basically is to quickly set the short term trim to a value after running in open loop and switching to closed loop. eg after a gearshift. The solution is to tune to fuel tables so that the AF is closer to the target.
There also is a min and max for the learned value (look at a 2006 Civic Si calibration). I'll add this in for the next release for the S2000."
So as Vitviper mentioned, it's a hidden feature that isn't available for modification for S2ks (yet). And he was correct on the way to fix the issue, even if he was a little harsh on the quality of my incomplete map and tuning methods
At this point we're just dropping full CAN BUS compliant M150 ecu's with my programming into the cars guys are doing serious work with and have zero bullshit to deal with -- and all the features on the car work, including cruise control, lol.
When you want a real ECU for your car, let me know, I have the S2K CAN cracked, just waiting on someone wanting to do the conversion.