Inline Pro Engine #3 - knocking after 1 track day. It's over.
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 2,140
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From: Johnstown, PA
Inline Pro Engine #3 - knocking after 1 track day. It's over.
Yes you read the thread title correctly.
My inline pro engine, #3, is knocking at 2500rpms, after three 20 minute sessions at the track. All temps, oil pressures, oil level, everything was completely healthily in spec during the day. I even had my phone mounted with the flashpro app on during my sessions to monitor temps, knocks, etc.
The flashpro app would register 1-2 knocks throughout an entire 20 min session. I was told flashpro was super sensitive and not to worry about it. AFRs looked great throughout so I figured no big deal.
I did the track day, then the car sat in the garage for a few days. I decided to scope the bores out of curiosity and this: https://www.s2ki.com/forums/s2000-fo...again-1207976/ (Some of the bores showing vertical scuffs).
Fast forward a couple more days and I take the car out for a drive. I'm driving maybe 10 minutes, sitting at a red light, start pulling away from light and I tear loud pinging/tapping as I'm pulling away and I see flashpro registering knocks. It keeps happening as I'm light to light. I now pray that I can cut away from traffic and this thing makes it home. It does make it home, but any sort of light load on the motor = constant knocks audibly and registering on flashpro.
I'm done. I bought the supercharger in June of 2018 and have been building the car to be a reliable boosted 3-5 track day per year weekender for 3 damn years, sparing absolutely no expense while doing so. 3 years and I was able to successfully complete ONE track day.
I did the math and if I would have walked into a Porsche dealership and leased a new GT3 the moment I decided I wanted a faster than stock S track car, I would've been farther ahead financially than I am now.. AND.. would've been able to attend more track days, been faster on track, AND only doing brake pad/oil changes while doing this.
Anyway, I sold the supercharger. Now I have this supposedly built inline pro engine that knocks at 2500rpms. It's not knocking at idle yet, although I haven't started the car since.
So uh, rant over I guess. If anyone knows of a F22C long block without accessories and low mileage.. let me know! Heh.
Last session of the day:
My inline pro engine, #3, is knocking at 2500rpms, after three 20 minute sessions at the track. All temps, oil pressures, oil level, everything was completely healthily in spec during the day. I even had my phone mounted with the flashpro app on during my sessions to monitor temps, knocks, etc.
The flashpro app would register 1-2 knocks throughout an entire 20 min session. I was told flashpro was super sensitive and not to worry about it. AFRs looked great throughout so I figured no big deal.
I did the track day, then the car sat in the garage for a few days. I decided to scope the bores out of curiosity and this: https://www.s2ki.com/forums/s2000-fo...again-1207976/ (Some of the bores showing vertical scuffs).
Fast forward a couple more days and I take the car out for a drive. I'm driving maybe 10 minutes, sitting at a red light, start pulling away from light and I tear loud pinging/tapping as I'm pulling away and I see flashpro registering knocks. It keeps happening as I'm light to light. I now pray that I can cut away from traffic and this thing makes it home. It does make it home, but any sort of light load on the motor = constant knocks audibly and registering on flashpro.
I'm done. I bought the supercharger in June of 2018 and have been building the car to be a reliable boosted 3-5 track day per year weekender for 3 damn years, sparing absolutely no expense while doing so. 3 years and I was able to successfully complete ONE track day.
I did the math and if I would have walked into a Porsche dealership and leased a new GT3 the moment I decided I wanted a faster than stock S track car, I would've been farther ahead financially than I am now.. AND.. would've been able to attend more track days, been faster on track, AND only doing brake pad/oil changes while doing this.
Anyway, I sold the supercharger. Now I have this supposedly built inline pro engine that knocks at 2500rpms. It's not knocking at idle yet, although I haven't started the car since.
So uh, rant over I guess. If anyone knows of a F22C long block without accessories and low mileage.. let me know! Heh.
Last session of the day:
Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 2,116
Likes: 671
From: Connecticut :(
Why did you have a motor built for a supercharged car? Stock motors handle a supercharger fine, even into 500+ whp territory, which isn't very easy to do supercharged. Either way that absolutely sucks, I wanna blame IP for this motor as well...
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Joined: May 2014
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Keep in mind you would spend WAY more money on a GT3 over time. TCOO for a Porsche is a LOT more than an S2k over any long period 
I know exactly zero Porche or BMW owners that have not dealt with many times the maintenance or repair costs on their cars than I have had on my 20 year old Honda or any of my Toyota products. Fun cars, but a lot more expensive over time hands down.
But this does totally suck. And you are for sure this is actual mechanical knock and not pinging/spark knock (which is really what the knock sensor is there to detect).
Given your symptoms (only hearing it at 2500 rpm under load and not idle) I would suspect a tune issue leading to spark knock over it being mechanical. Many times a slight rod knock will present itself first at idle (lower oil pressure) and when holding the rpm up around 3000 rpm and quickly letting off throttle but may not be easy to hear when increasing rpm. Then as it gets worse it becomes more audible across any rpm.
I know exactly zero Porche or BMW owners that have not dealt with many times the maintenance or repair costs on their cars than I have had on my 20 year old Honda or any of my Toyota products. Fun cars, but a lot more expensive over time hands down.But this does totally suck. And you are for sure this is actual mechanical knock and not pinging/spark knock (which is really what the knock sensor is there to detect).
Given your symptoms (only hearing it at 2500 rpm under load and not idle) I would suspect a tune issue leading to spark knock over it being mechanical. Many times a slight rod knock will present itself first at idle (lower oil pressure) and when holding the rpm up around 3000 rpm and quickly letting off throttle but may not be easy to hear when increasing rpm. Then as it gets worse it becomes more audible across any rpm.
Thread Starter
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 2,140
Likes: 162
From: Johnstown, PA
Keep in mind you would spend WAY more money on a GT3 over time. TCOO for a Porsche is a LOT more than an S2k over any long period I know exactly zero Porche or BMW owners that have not dealt with many times the maintenance or repair costs on their cars than I have had on my 20 year old Honda or any of my Toyota products. Fun cars, but a lot more expensive over time hands down.
But this does totally suck. And you are for sure this is actual mechanical knock and not pinging/spark knock (which is really what the knock sensor is there to detect).
Given your symptoms (only hearing it at 2500 rpm under load and not idle) I would suspect a tune issue leading to spark knock over it being mechanical. Many times a slight rod knock will present itself first at idle (lower oil pressure) and when holding the rpm up around 3000 rpm and quickly letting off throttle but may not be easy to hear when increasing rpm. Then as it gets worse it becomes more audible across any rpm.
I know exactly zero Porche or BMW owners that have not dealt with many times the maintenance or repair costs on their cars than I have had on my 20 year old Honda or any of my Toyota products. Fun cars, but a lot more expensive over time hands down.But this does totally suck. And you are for sure this is actual mechanical knock and not pinging/spark knock (which is really what the knock sensor is there to detect).
Given your symptoms (only hearing it at 2500 rpm under load and not idle) I would suspect a tune issue leading to spark knock over it being mechanical. Many times a slight rod knock will present itself first at idle (lower oil pressure) and when holding the rpm up around 3000 rpm and quickly letting off throttle but may not be easy to hear when increasing rpm. Then as it gets worse it becomes more audible across any rpm.
I wasn't trying to say that it's flat out cheaper to track something like that vs an FI S on track, I'm saying it would have been for me and my situation.
Yeah I heard it knocking first before looking down at the flashpro confirming it. It was very loud and zero question of what it was before flashpro confirming it.
Thread Starter
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 2,140
Likes: 162
From: Johnstown, PA
I initially had a 150k mile motor that I boosted, made great power but after a year I did some compression/leakdown tests and it was a bit tired. I figured what the hey I'll have inline pro refresh it. That started this whole damn debacle with IP motors. That first rebuild blew up, and scored the block so bad it was trash. The second rebuild included another block that also scored shortly after they installed it and this is the third rebuild that has now failed. We had to use non-OEM sized pistons in the last two builds because of having to hone out previously scored blocks for the rebuilds.
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Maintenance costs that YOU have had... not me.
I wasn't trying to say that it's flat out cheaper to track something like that vs an FI S on track, I'm saying it would have been for me and my situation.
Yeah I heard it knocking first before looking down at the flashpro confirming it. It was very loud and zero question of what it was before flashpro confirming it.
I wasn't trying to say that it's flat out cheaper to track something like that vs an FI S on track, I'm saying it would have been for me and my situation.
Yeah I heard it knocking first before looking down at the flashpro confirming it. It was very loud and zero question of what it was before flashpro confirming it.
Would be nice if we could hear some sound clips of the knocking to help you further. Not saying it 100% is not a mechanical issue, but your description leaves some question.
Thread Starter
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 2,140
Likes: 162
From: Johnstown, PA
Whether flashpro or you hearing it. If it is "pinging" as you describe that does not sound like a rod knocking. Two totally different sounds. And the fact that it does not do it at idle and only under load (when a mild rod knock would NOT be as loud) still makes me think you are hearing spark knock vs mechanical knock. Rod knock does not "ping". It sounds like a hard metal object hitting another one. The "ping" is heard when spark knock is occurring and again happens under load and not at idle. So I would hate to see you just move on thinking you have a much more serious issue than you may have here. Trying to help you here before saying your motor is toast and just accepting that
Would be nice if we could hear some sound clips of the knocking to help you further. Not saying it 100% is not a mechanical issue, but your description leaves some question.
Would be nice if we could hear some sound clips of the knocking to help you further. Not saying it 100% is not a mechanical issue, but your description leaves some question.
It got worse as I drove it home.
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Thread Starter
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 2,140
Likes: 162
From: Johnstown, PA
Also, if it were ignition knock, how it would not be a problem at WOT? and 2, why would it randomly just start knocking even though AFRs are fine? Could a bad plug/coil pack cause it to only happen at certain loads/rpms? I wouldnt think so.
Joined: Dec 2007
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AFR is one of the three things that could cause knock (fuel, spark, timing and i guess compression could be a 4th), being that you're boosted if fuel is fine, spark and timing are the next things to chase down. your tune might be bad or something as simple as fuel quality may be deviating from the stuff you originally tuned on (winter mix or summer mix for gasoline used to be a thing).
rod knock or bearing knock won't register on the knock sensor to report to flashpro, axe me how i know lol...
i think how i would proceed (others can chime in) if i was you:
-pull the flashpro knock codes. if it fired off the knock sensor, it should have stored the code. if you're lucky it will not be a random misfire and instead it will tell you which cylinder.
-datalog some miles in various driving conditions, try to be deliberate about ambient temps, fuel used, etc.
-reproduce the knocking in the logs, talk it over with your tuner in terms of fuel and timing.
-replace fuel with fresh fuel closest to what you tuned on (i would personally use VP octanium octane booster just to be sure im on the high/rich end)
-replace spark plugs with fresh NGK Iridiums BKR8EIX (i think everyone from 250-700whp should use these plugs)
-datalog more, talk more with your tuner or find a new one
**-chase down if it's specific to one cylinder, maybe swap coil packs around if it's persistent in one hole (then check compression after)
lastly, if you still have that knock and you're still convinced it's bearing knock, drain the oil, check the VTEC solenoid screen and cut the oil filter apart to inspect. if it's bearing, you'll find it in those 3 locations. when it becomes blatantly apparent that it is none of the above mentioned, you unfortunately have what i have, which is piston slap and it'll never go away even though it won't necessarily kill the motor.
sample clip (at idle, only on cold starts):
https://imgur.com/a/kM7Hqnl
rod knock or bearing knock won't register on the knock sensor to report to flashpro, axe me how i know lol...
i think how i would proceed (others can chime in) if i was you:
-pull the flashpro knock codes. if it fired off the knock sensor, it should have stored the code. if you're lucky it will not be a random misfire and instead it will tell you which cylinder.
-datalog some miles in various driving conditions, try to be deliberate about ambient temps, fuel used, etc.
-reproduce the knocking in the logs, talk it over with your tuner in terms of fuel and timing.
-replace fuel with fresh fuel closest to what you tuned on (i would personally use VP octanium octane booster just to be sure im on the high/rich end)
-replace spark plugs with fresh NGK Iridiums BKR8EIX (i think everyone from 250-700whp should use these plugs)
-datalog more, talk more with your tuner or find a new one
**-chase down if it's specific to one cylinder, maybe swap coil packs around if it's persistent in one hole (then check compression after)
lastly, if you still have that knock and you're still convinced it's bearing knock, drain the oil, check the VTEC solenoid screen and cut the oil filter apart to inspect. if it's bearing, you'll find it in those 3 locations. when it becomes blatantly apparent that it is none of the above mentioned, you unfortunately have what i have, which is piston slap and it'll never go away even though it won't necessarily kill the motor.
sample clip (at idle, only on cold starts):
https://imgur.com/a/kM7Hqnl