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Is my intercooler too small? Need retune with larger unit?

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Old Jun 30, 2016 | 03:27 PM
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Default Is my intercooler too small? Need retune with larger unit?

I'm running a C38-91 Kraftwerks kit and made 383 whp @ 16.7 psi on Church Auto's dynapack (known to read high).

I can't help but think the numbers are low, especially at the level of boost I'm running.

The Kraftwerks kit comes with a 27x12x3 intercooler, but I am running a 24x8x3.5 unit made by Precision (discontinued I believe).

I have a spare Full Blown 24x10.5x3.5 intercooler that I can swap to and it's rated for 800hp. Will the extra 2.5" of height make a noticeable difference in PSI / cooling capability? Wouldn't further blocking the radiator create other heat problems?

My tuner says the 91 octane fuel is the main bottleneck preventing power (he says that I should be over 500 with larger injectors and E85 tune).

My setup:
Supercharger Kit: Kraftwerks
Supercharger Make/Size: Rotrex C38-91
Motor: F22C
Compression Ratio: 11:1 (Stock)
Specs: Stock Internals
Injectors: ID1000
Fuel Pump: Walbro 255
EMS: AEM EMS Series 2 w/ Hondata 4 Bar MAP Sensor
Fuel: 91 Octane
PSI: 16.7 PSI
WHP: 383 WHP
WTQ: 278 WTQ
Dyno: Dynapack
Additional Specs: Mugen AP2 Header, T1R 70mm Test Pipe, T1R 70R-EM Catback Exhaust

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Old Jun 30, 2016 | 06:53 PM
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Wouldn't the bigger cooler only make more pressure loss compared to smaller one, if so I would only run as big as it needs to be to keep iats in check.

I have heard alot from different forums about that shop and tuner, if they say your particular engine and kit with 91 setup is running well but u want more and they recommend higher Oct. For those goals I would believe them. What's it gonna hurt? 5-10 gal. of race gas and re-tune see if it responds. I was only contemplating that kit shortly but I think at that pressure it's about maxed isn't it? So what he's trying to tell you running more timing for power is gonna need higher Oct. Gas.

In my short s2 SC research I believe stock exhaust with TP was the preferred setup for #'s I think u might even be able to find back to back dynos proving such. So maybe u have a few mods actually hurting current setup. But 91 is like the lowest premium I have ever heard of. SC's are pretty forgiving being FI because it doesn't see the brute of the pressure until higher Rpms where it actually starts to naturally want more timing but it's still FI and u still only have 91.
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Old Jul 1, 2016 | 10:02 AM
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Originally Posted by MorngWoodStewie
Wouldn't the bigger cooler only make more pressure loss compared to smaller one, if so I would only run as big as it needs to be to keep iats in check.

I have heard alot from different forums about that shop and tuner, if they say your particular engine and kit with 91 setup is running well but u want more and they recommend higher Oct. For those goals I would believe them. What's it gonna hurt? 5-10 gal. of race gas and re-tune see if it responds. I was only contemplating that kit shortly but I think at that pressure it's about maxed isn't it? So what he's trying to tell you running more timing for power is gonna need higher Oct. Gas.

In my short s2 SC research I believe stock exhaust with TP was the preferred setup for #'s I think u might even be able to find back to back dynos proving such. So maybe u have a few mods actually hurting current setup. But 91 is like the lowest premium I have ever heard of. SC's are pretty forgiving being FI because it doesn't see the brute of the pressure until higher Rpms where it actually starts to naturally want more timing but it's still FI and u still only have 91.
I am having major heating issues at the track, but I also haven't installed an oil cooler yet (doing that next).

The cost of going E85 is quite extensive actually - flex fuel kit (for convenience), bigger injectors, higher flowing fuel pump, re-tune... looking at another $2k there and I'm already at around $8k into the S/C kit.
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Old Jul 1, 2016 | 12:02 PM
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that's a lot of boost for a stock motor, iv seen people run around 400hp on pump with about 12psi, might wana look into it more. kraftwerks has an on the shelf tune, ask how much boost they are running
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Old Jul 1, 2016 | 09:32 PM
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The precision 600hp inter is a great intercooler and can easily support 600whp. That is now your problem at all. I have denied my s2000 at church over 8 times now and his Dyno does read high but he's a great tuner. But 383whp on his Dyno is pretty bad considering his Dyno reads about 10% higher than a standard Dyno jet. I would expect you setup would Dyno well over 400whp on churches dyno.
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Old Jul 2, 2016 | 09:20 AM
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On that same setup for my ap1 at 16psi i made 460whp. Stock header, 70mm testpipe and t1r 70mm exhaust. Stock motor. But i was at 93 pump gas. But still thats 80 whp difference.
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Old Jul 2, 2016 | 09:50 AM
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Im sure u are having heating issues tracking a SC at that psi. But one post you say IAT n then this ur saying oil cooler, are they all to high? Or what.

Just take it one step at a time and try to narrow down possibilities.
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Old Jul 5, 2016 | 01:04 PM
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Originally Posted by MorngWoodStewie
Im sure u are having heating issues tracking a SC at that psi. But one post you say IAT n then this ur saying oil cooler, are they all to high? Or what.

Just take it one step at a time and try to narrow down possibilities.
I just bought a Setrab oil cooler and Koyo radiator which I believe will solve my overheating woes. I am still concerned about the low numbers the car is making at such high PSI. I was having spark blowout issues when driving it on the street (didn't really notice it on the dyno or at the track) and I've made the gap tighter (0.020) since then - would that affect power or the tuning process?

Kraftwerks supplied low grade bolts for the Vtec solenoid and two of them snapped into the engine. I got class 10.9 bolts that I'll be swapping in and then I can test the results of the gap change.
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Old Jul 5, 2016 | 01:37 PM
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I'd suggest Spal fans also
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Old Jul 5, 2016 | 02:57 PM
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What are the IATs if you suspect a inefficient intercooler? Run 93 octane and more ignition timing. I do not have dyno proof, but I heard from a reputable member (urmil), that HeCash has seen higher rpm power drop offs with a mugen header. Put the stock header on or get a Js racing header. Also, you lost power up top, is pressure bleeding off or is the belt slipping?

Not all cars, motors, and parts are created equal.
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